SGU Episode 387
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| SGU Episode 387 |
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| 15th Dec 2012 |
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| (brief caption for the episode icon) |
| Skeptical Rogues |
| S: Steven Novella |
B: Bob Novella |
R: Rebecca Watson |
J: Jay Novella |
E: Evan Bernstein |
| Guest |
JB: Joshie Berger |
| Quote of the Week |
Progress is impossible without change, and those who cannot change their minds cannot change anything. |
| Links |
| Download Podcast |
| SGU Podcast archive |
| Forum Discussion |
Introduction
You're listening to the Skeptics' Guide to the Universe, your escape to reality.
S: Hello and welcome to the Skeptics' Guide to the Universe. Today is Thursday, December 13, 2012, and this is your host Steven Novella. Joining me this week are Bob Novella,
B: Hey, everybody.
S: Rebecca Watson,
R: Hello, everyone.
S: Jay Novella,
J: Hey, guys.
S: And Evan Bernstein.
E: Hey, Happy Hanukkah, guys.
S: Happy Hanukkah.
J: Is it Chonukkah?
E: It is.
J: Evan, I never asked you this before, but, what do you celebrate?
E: It's known as the Festival of Lights, and Jewish people commemorate the miracle of the olive oil that took place back in Jerusalem, in which there was a, basically a large conflict going on with the Jews, what else is new? And they needed eight nights' worth of oil to get through their turmoil and tumult at the time. But there was only enough oil for one night, so they lit the oil, and miraculously it lasted for a whole eight nights, until they could press more oil, which was the whole point of getting to the eighth day. And they were able to save the temple that they were defending and rid the bad guys, if you, you know, if you're on the side of the Jewish people. So, that's the miracle. You know, it's considered a celebration, a festival, it's not really a holiday. It's not Christmas, it's not what Christmas is to Christians and Catholics. This is more just a commemoration.
S: Catholics are Christians, by the way, just so we don't get any emails about that.
R: Well, not if you're Jack Chick. ____________ Christmas is celebrated by more than just Christians.
E: Are you saying what do we do here at the household?
J: Yeah, do you do both? What do you do?
E: Yeah, we celebrate both. We do the . . .
S: Secular thing.
E: secular version of all of this stuff, right? And
R: Oh, so it's like a war on Hanukkah, is what you're saying.
E: War on Hanukkah, exactly. Another war.
B: I'm more of a Festivus man myself.
E: Bob, you brought up Festivus, and it all happens around the time of the winter solstice, roughly. So, whereas a lot of people were celebrating that fact, of the seasons, you know, it all kind of, I guess, made sense to a certain degree to have these celebrations based on that.
S: It's all based on pagan celebrations, surviving the darkest day of the year.
E: Right.
B: Happy Saturnalia, everybody.
S: Well, Rebecca, welcome back from Australia. I hear you had a good time.
B: Yeah.
R: Thank you. Yeah, I had a blast. You guys were definitely missed. Several times I
E: And we missed you too.
R: I was asked where you were. You and George. Everybody wanted to know where you and George were.
S: Yeah.
R: So. I told them that you didn't love them. (laughter) And that you were at home, celebrating not being in Australia because you hate them, so…(laughter)
E: That's really nice.
S: You know, we have jobs and kids and stuff.
R: Yeah, yeah, yeah. No, hopefully, you can go next time because they'd like to see you.
S: Love to go. Just need a little, little more
E: A little lead time. We have to plan a long time ahead for these things.
R: Especially the New Zealanders, because they didn't get to see the live show or anything last time.
S: We really want to go to New Zealand, but honestly, it's really the time off. Carving out that much time off in our schedule is really challenging.
R: So, yeah, it was, I had a blast. Possibly, my highlight, we went back to Waitomo Caves, where the glowworms are, and it was amazing.
B: Cool.
R: We went spelunking with inner tubes,
E: Wow.
R: And it was awesome.
J: All right, when you say "spelunking," like, how tight was it?
R: It wasn't that bad. There were some parts where, if you were claustrophobic you would have really had a bad time, but for the most part it was pretty easy. The reason why you carry the tubes for the most part though is because at one point it opens up and you can float down this underground river, and just like look up and see what looks like a galaxy of glowworms above you.
B: Oooh, wow.
R: It was really amazing.
J: Now is it true that they drop down, and they try to eat your face?
R: Yeah, no, they are carnivorous and they do eat people. They're at the top of their food chain. No. They actually don't have mouths wide enough to eat, the adults. So there's really no worry about that. Glowworms are, as our guide aptly pointed out, they're not worms, but glowmaggots doesn't get any tourists to the area. (laughter)
J: Glowmaggots. Oh, my god, that's so nasty.
R: Yeah, they're, technically, they're maggots, and they glow, and
S: They're the larval stage of the species.
R: Yeah.
J: Rebecca, like, when you're floating by, do they look down and go "You look delicious"?
(laughter)
E: Rebecca in Wonderland.
R: No, I don't think so. No, they have, each of them has a tiny thread coming down from it, and it uses that, it uses its light to attract bugs
J: Humans, yeah, and they float by on rafts.
R: Right. Yeah, but you should never get up and touch them or they'll eat you. They're one of the few species, I think, that eats its parents.
S: Um hmm.
E: Wow.
R: 'Cause the female lays the eggs, and then gets caught in the stickiness, I think, and eventually gets devoured by larva.
B: Mom and dad . . .
J: I think those monsters from Half Life that drop like a tentacle and pull you up and they eat you at the ceiling
R: Yeah, those are glowworms.
J: Those are pretty much rampant glowworms.
This Day in Skepticism (5:25)
- December 15, 1973 The American Psychiatric Association votes 13–0 to remove homosexuality from its official list of psychiatric disorders, the DSM-II.
News Items
Creationist Tactics (10:25)
Truth in Education (15:31)
Dawn of Life (22:10)
History of Cheese (28:28)
Quickie with Bob - Ocean Robots (37:29)
News Items Continued
Vampire Warning (29:31)
Who's That Noisy and Skeptical Puzzle (43:53)
- Answer to last week: Dr. Charles Crouthammer
- Puzzle: There are three boxes. One is labeled "CARROTS" another is labeled "CELERY". The last one is labeled "CARROTS AND CELERY". You know that each is labeled incorrectly. You may ask me to pick one vegetable from one box which you choose. How can you label the boxes correctly?
Interview with Joshie Berger (47:07)
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This section is in the middle of being transcribed by av8rmike (talk) as of {{{date}}}. To help avoid duplication, please do not transcribe this section while this message is displayed. |
S: Well, Evan, Jay and I previously recorded a conversation with our friend Joshie Berger, so let's listen to that conversation now.
Well, we're being joined now by Joshie Berger; Joshie, welcome back to the SGU.
JB: I am so honored to be part of the extended SGU family. Thank you guys.
S: We wanted to touch base one last time before the world ends
E: Yeah.
JB: Ah, you know what, these Mayan sons-a-bitches; we're finally getting somewhere. Randi keeps getting stronger every year. I don't know what the hell that wizard is doing; every year at TAM he seems to be getting stronger. Finally, (unintelligible) is about to croak; that Sylvia Browne thing, it seems like she's almost hitting her end, and right now the world has to end. Why?! Good times are coming and they're ending for us.
(laughing)
E: Good times were not meant to last.
J: Joshie, come on; it was a good run, man, but everything has to end.
S: Yeah, we had four and a half billion years; that was good.
JB: Yeah, yeah, but you know what? Playstation 4 is about to come out, "Grand Theft Auto 5" is about to come out.
E: Call of Duty 18 or something, right?
S: Hey, but we'll get—we'll get to see "The Hobbit" before the world ends, so.
JB: I don't even know what that is, but—
E/J: (laughs)
JB: I'm sorry; I'm not a geek like you guys.
E: (laughs)
JB: I've composed a short list of things that I want to educate you guys on, and we're going to do a list, instead of Science and Fiction we're going to do Jewie or Fiction. And I am going to read to you guys four things then you guys have to decide are these real things that religious Orthodox Jews believe, or is one of them fiction—which one of them is. Did I explain that well, Steve; I think you do a better job.
S: Yeah, you got it. Three of these are things that Orthodox Jews really believe and one is wrong; you made it up, I'm assuming.
JB: All right. The first one: Now, the Bible prohibits work or labor on the Sabbath, as you all know; it's the day of rest. So, religious Jews define work very broadly and a lot of things you're not allowed to do. One of the things you're not allowed to do is to separate the bad from the good, which means you can't filter water; you can't even pick out a shirt if it's the wrong one, you have to pick the right one out when you want to wear something on the Sabbath. This also means you can't pick out the bones from fish, you have to pick out the bones from fish from the bones. It causes a lot of problems. This ultimately led to Jews creating what we now know as gefilte fish, a fish without bones in it.
J: Oh, OK.
JB: Eh, number one. Number two is: Additionally, one of the things prohibited on the Sabbath is carrying anything outdoors, meaning you can't walk out of your house with anything, anything in your pocket: keys; you can't push a baby in a stroller. To circumvent this, Jews, when they live in an area of concentration of lar— Jews put a string around their neighborhoods, so now they trick God into thinking it's one big area and it's no outdoors or indoors, and now they can push strollers across the street, go for meals and they can carry stuff in their pockets.
J: (laughing) Oh my God.
JB: (foreign accent) Hey, do not laugh at my people. (normal voice) Next: The Bible every once in a while gets something right, and it wants to say that you should be nice to animals. Thus, there is the enforcement, the prohibition of telling farmers that they are not allowed to muzzle their ox while they thresh their field. Threshing, if you don't know, and I didn't know until I was in Yeshiva, is separating the wheat from the inedible parts, so the animal steps in it, it gets separated. And it's cruel to allow your animal to be muzzled so he looks at the food and he can't eat while he's working. The Talmud, though, tries to find a loophole in this, to figure out how Jews can muzzle their animals while they're threshing the fields, so they can save some money. So what they do is, is they devise contracts between farmers where the farmers exchange fields while they're plowing, and for no other time, so technically the Bible you're not allowed to muzzle your ox, but you're muzzling someone else's ox if during this period of time, it's not really your ox and therefore they can get away with it; they save some money and you guys have to pay us rent and we win. Now—
J: I love it. It's like a negotiation, you know; like, how can they outsmart the Bible?
JB: Dude, that's why we never lose at Monopoly. I was born with this game. Next: the Bible prohibits shaving ones face. You wonder oftentimes why Chasidic Jews have beards; the Bible says that you're not allowed to shave certain points of your face. But, the non-extreme religious Jews say that cutting or trimming is allowed; it just says "shaving". Sooo, back in the days, to shave, cut with scissors and stuff, but now, with the advent of the electric shaver, which has a two-blade cutting system, which is like two little blades inside, Orthodox Jews can now shave, because technically they consider it, because it's two blades, to be like little mini scissors inside and it's not really shaving, although it shaves it because it's like little scissors cutting it up against your face. And that's why you'll go to court; you'll see your lawyers, and you'll go to your dentist and Dr. Greenberg, whatever, will be shaven because they use electric shavers but they still can't use blades. There you go!
J: That's awesome. That's awesome.
JB: I know. There you go! We're going to start with Steve.
S: Um, I proudly know none of this.
JB: Yes!
J/E: (laughing)
S: Yeah, it seems like always—yeah, getting out of a contract by following the details and not the spirit, you know?
J: Right.
S: So they're all equivalent in that way. I definitely have heard about the not-shaving thing, and also there's something about not cutting or trimming the hair at the temples and that's why they have the long hair—
JB: Correct, peyos.
S: —on both side hanging down. Yeah, so I know that that kind of restriction occurs; are some people getting out of it by saying that electric shavers are tiny scissors? That certain is plausible. The "thou shalt not muzzle your ox" one? Wow, that really is subverting the purpose of a restriction by focusing on a tiny word. That-that's, I think, the most egregious example of subverting God's will, if you will, of these four. The string one is the funniest one; you know, but that's—I'm going to employ that logic was, that's so out there that you probably wouldn't have made it up, and so that one's probably real, and—I like the gefilte fish one; that one just seems right to me for some reason, just separating the good from the bad just makes a certain Biblical kind of logic.
E: (laughs) Which means (unintelligible)
JB: So you're going with...
S: So I think I'm going to say that the ox one is the fiction, just because it's the most egregious.
JB: Wow. Very nice. Interesting. We're going to leave Evan for last because he has a little heads-up on you guys genetically. Go ahead, Jay; let's hear you.
J: Yeah, so the first one about not being able to separate the good from the bad, like I—after you do the reveal, Joshie, I'll be curious to hear why that's bad. Like, if this one's true, why would that be bad? Like, you can't even pick what T-shirt you wear? How ridiculous. Like, you know, every single thing we do is a decision.
JB: Yeah.
J: On some level. So that—
JB: See, the problem you're doing, though, is using logic for something that is really illogical.
J: You're right. OK, so this one, I'm not so sure about that one just because of how big of a problem it would be. But we'll get back to that. Now the second one about the string; I love this. I mean, I absolutely—you know, I always like to personify things where I'm like, so at one point in time, some guy, some rabbi was sitting there and he's like, "(Yiddish accent) Vat is this, ve can't do any of these things? Ve can't get outside? We get the string! Get the string!" I love that; I have to believe that's true, because I will be thoroughly disappointed if some awesome rabbi didn't like just be like, "we're going to wrap our neighborhood with a string!" I love it, so that one—
JB: Not to mention that you can cause so much chaos in a Jewish community with the mere implementation of a scissors.
J: Right. I love it. Now the third one about the ox, like OK—me and my neighbor farmer friend both have oxes; I'm going to—
JB: Oxen.
J: —I'm going to pull a fast one on God and I am going to use my neighbor's animals, not mine. Wow, like as if. As if! You know, you die and you go to Heaven, and God's like, "Really? Really?!"
S: (laughing) But isn't that true of all of these ones? Isn't God going to go, "Really, a string?"
E: (laughing)
S: I mean, come on.
J: And then, this last one with the microscopic scissors. "These are not razors; these are scissors!" You know, like, that's epic.
JB: It's like Austin Powers, yeah.
J: I-I wanna go with the separation one, the first one with the gefilte fish, because I just—it's not as entertaining as the others and I don't know; I just think that one's the fake.
JB: All righty. Evan, let's have some Jewie opinion here.
E: I—My DNA is not helping me here, I must admit, so... you know, it's not a bad thing. Here's what I did: I took these in the order of most ridiculous, basically, and I'm taking the least ridiculous one and I'm going to call that one the fiction. The gefilte fish one. I think, in regards to this one, they may have once adhered to this, but they ate—you know, you eat fish so much and after a few years, they're saying "wow, this is a big old pain in the ass and I'm tired of eating these damn fish bones and stuff; let's change this. Let's fix this and get this corrected." So I think that that one, gefilte fish is going to turn out to be the fiction in this game.
JB: Allll righty now, so we got Steve thinking that the fiction one is the ox one, and we got the other two clowns thinking that it's the gefilte fish one. So, let's take the last one, the shaving one first.
Science or Fiction (1:04:07)
Item number one. A new study finds that reducing dietary fat from a high fat diet can cause withdrawal symptoms of anxiety and food craving. Item number two. Researchers examining generic pharmaceuticals find that they frequently have significant chemical differences from the their brand-name version. And item number three. A new fossil analysis suggests that large multicellular creatures may have appeared on land prior to evolving in the sea.
Skeptical Quote of the Week (1:16:59)
Progress is impossible without change, and those who cannot change their minds cannot change anything.
George Bernard Shaw
References
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