SGU Episode 912

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SGU Episode 912
December 31st 2022
Click for the gallery of uploaded files Add an appropriate caption here for the episode icon
SGU 911                      SGU 913
Skeptical Rogues
S: Steven Novella
B: Bob Novella
C: Cara Santa Maria
J: Jay Novella
E: Evan Bernstein
Guest
IC: Ian Callanan, SGU tech-guru
Quote of the Week
I always knew I wanted to be a doctor. Fortunately, my parents believed that girls should do as well as boys, so off I set.
Audrey Evans, pediatric oncologist
Links
Download Podcast
Show Notes
[https://sguforums.org/index.php?BOARD=1.0 Forum Discussion]

Introduction

S: Hello and welcome to the Skeptics' Guide to the Universe. Today is Thursday, December 22^nd, 2022, and this is your host, Steven Novella. Joining me this week are Bob Novella...

B: Hey, everybody!

S: Cara Santa Maria...

C: Howdy.

S: Jay Novella...

J: Hey guys.

S: ...Evan Bernstein.

E: Good evening everyone!

S: ...and we have a special guest this week, Ian Watermelon Callanan. (laughter) Ian, welcome back to the SGU.

IC: Destroyed my intro. Hey, you guys.

S: You don't have your intro yet? So Ian, if you don't know, is the tech guru behind the SGU engine. Last year, your first year when you joined us for the year-end review? You've done it a couple of times?

IC: I think second.

S: Second, so this is the third time?

IC: Because I remember getting it right last year. No big deal, [inaudible] (laughter) So that's all I remember.

S: Yeah, so we're going to make this a regular thing. Have Ian on to close out the show. Last show of the year. It's coming out right on December 31^st. We're recording it just before the holiday, so the Rogues have a week off. I give you guys a week off every now and then, even though we have a show out every week. 52 shows a year.

E: Thank you. Thank you, Stephen.

IC: Thanks boss.

J: You know, it's good timing because right now I really need a week off.

C: Me too.

J: So a lot of us got sick from going to Arizona. We're not sick of Arizona. We got sick in Arizona. We all caught a bad cold.

E: Caught the Tucson flu-son.

B: Not Bob.

J: Most of us did.

IC: Not me. Evan did not.

C: Actually, only two of us did.

J: No, Rachel did.

C: Oh, and Rachel. And Rachel.

S: Anyone check with George?

J: A few of us got sick. Apparently Cara and I were working the hardest.

C: Yes, that's why.

E: Is that what that was?

C: Absolutely why.

B: Or you were the weakest.

C: Blaming the victim over here, Bob. It's terrible.

E: Yeah, right.

B: The weakest immune system.

J: When Cara and I die from disease, Bob, you're going to feel really bad.

B: Yeah, but I get your stuff.

C: I get your stuff. (laughs)

J: Oh, my God. (laughs) Now we know what it's all about with Bob.

Who's That Noisy? ()

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[top]                        

Science or Fiction (h:mm:ss)

Item #1: _item_text_from_show_notes_ Item #2: _item_text_from_show_notes_ Item #3: _item_text_from_show_notes_ Item #4: (_item_text_from_show_notes_)

Answer	Item
Fiction
Science

Host	Result
Steve

Rogue	Guess

Voice-over: It's time for Science or Fiction.

Steve Explains Item #_n_

S: Well, let's move on to science or fiction.

S: Each week I come up with three science news items or facts, two real and one fake, and then I challenge my panel of skeptics to tell me which one is the fake.

S: So this is the last science or fiction for the year, and we're going to start, as we always do on this episode, by going over some statistics.

S: Are you guys ready for this?

E: No.

E: No.

S: I have a feeling you did terrible.

S: I included the episode that hasn't aired yet because obviously we had a couple of listeners who very nicely –

E: Why would you do that? I got those wrong.

S: Collated the stats for us, but I had to add in the episode they haven't heard since they were not privy to it.

S: All right.

S: We'll start with Bob, who got 27 correct out of 53 participations.

S: I don't know how that turned out to be 53.

S: They must have included the one from the end of last year.

C: Oh, but also, Steve, if you included both of the ones we just recorded, what –

S: I did, only the one that's going to air. Oh, okay.

S: I looked at the top.

S: I did not include the one that's not going to air.

S: You included the sweep.

S: I know what I'm doing.

S: I know what I'm doing.

S: Relax.

S: So Bob, you're at 50.9%.

S: So you broke 50%.

S: That's good.

B: That's good, Bob.

B: Yeah, whatever.

S: Yeah, that's great.

S: Evan, 26 out of 49 for 53.1%.

E: Oh my gosh.

E: Better than I thought.

S: Jay, 29 out of 50 for 58%.

C: Ooh, Jay.

S: And Cara, how do you think you did?

C: Like around how Jay did probably.

S: I'm assuming you're going in order, so slightly better.

S: 35, 48.

S: 72.9%, Cara.

S: Yeah.

S: Jeez.

S: You always underestimate how well you do.

S: 72.9%.

C: Yes, because the hard beats are so hard.

C: What about you, Steve?

C: I had 0%.

S: I played one game and I lost.

S: So I was at 0%.

S: You suck.

E: We got to get you in the game, up to bat a few more times.

E: Yeah, yeah.

S: You guys should cover more often.

S: So I guess for a few.

S: Yeah, put me down for a couple this coming year, Steve.

E: Yeah, okay.

S: There's some other ways to break this down, however.

S: So we could go by the percentage correct based on when they went in the order, when you guys went in the order.

S: So the first person, the person who went first was correct 46% of the time.

S: Second, 54%.

S: Third, 61.2%.

S: Fourth, 72.7%.

S: Wow.

E: Nice.

E: That is – wow, how linear can you get right there?

S: And on a few times when we had five people, the fifth person going was correct 100% of the time.

S: Oh, that's amazing.

S: Wow.

B: That's really cool.

B: How many times is that though?

B: A fifth person?

E: Probably not a third time.

S: Probably only a couple of times.

S: Yeah, probably only a couple of times.

S: Now, so the emailer said, so there is a clear advantage to going later in the game with last and fifth being the best spots.

S: Apparently so.

S: However, he is committing a fallacy and making that conclusion.

S: What is the false assumption he's making?

J: That going later increases your chances.

S: No, but what – that's the conclusion.

S: But there's a premise.

S: There's a false premise in there.

S: Jamblers.

S: It's an unstated premise.

S: It's not an –

C: That somebody is getting it right before you? No.

S: The unstated premise is that the order is random.

S: The order is not random.

S: I decide when you guys go.

S: Now, I try to mix it up to make it fair.

S: But I also – if I think you have an advantage, I will make you go last.

S: Sure.

S: Yeah, yeah, yeah.

E: You do that a lot.

E: It's a topic about Thanksgiving.

S: Jay is going last.

S: Yes.

S: If it's like a psychology thing, I'll make Cara go last.

S: If it's an astronomy thing, I'll probably make Bob go last.

S: If it's a tax thing, they never have.

E: Tax thing, you never know.

S: So he was assuming that going last caused you to have an advantage, but it's more that if you have an advantage, I make you go last.

S: Right.

C: Interesting.

C: And it's probably – I would assume the variance is kind of in both, Cara.

J: You see how complicated this gets?

S: No, I do think it's both, mainly because there's a dose response, right?

S: It's a linear – it's not just that last position.

S: It is – but I also – I also think like if I think you're the person who's most vulnerable, I'll make you go first.

E: For sure.

E: It's the only way to blind us during this game.

S: Yeah.

S: We've tried that.

S: It just wasn't as fun.

E: Too cumbersome.

E: Yeah, right.

E: It doesn't – the dialogue goes over.

S: All right.

S: So here is the stats on who went first.

S: Bob went first 20% of the time.

S: Cara 22%, Evan 26%, Jay 22%.

S: Not a bad distribution.

S: Not a bad distribution.

S: I'm freewheeling it.

S: So that's pretty good.

S: The person going last was Bob 14%, Cara 30%.

S: So you do have an advantage going in that last position.

S: Wow, that's big.

S: Who would Cara bias there?

S: Evan 22%, Jay 28%.

C: So that – I mean that could be some contribution to me and Jay's higher wins.

C: It could be.

C: But also like you said, sometimes you put us last because you're afraid that we have more knowledge about the topic.

S: Right, right, right.

S: So that could also advantage us.

S: I do look at the stats and it does influence me a little bit for the following.

S: It's like if things get a little bit too out of range, I do correct a little bit.

E: There's no perfect formula.

E: I mean let's face it.

S: Yeah.

S: Oh, yeah.

S: Yeah.

S: It's all based on what's going to be the most fun and interesting.

S: And then finally, the first answer was correct 40% of the time.

S: The second answer 32% of the time and the third answer 28% of the time.

S: Interesting.

S: So again, the emailer said – so if you went in doubt, guess the first answer.

S: What's the fallacies?

S: I mean I think they were joking.

S: But I mean the fallacy there is that past performance is a prediction of future performance.

S: Right.

S: Now the order of which one is correct is random.

S: I literally roll a die and whatever it is, that's what it is.

S: How funny.

S: Because that you can't randomize things subjectively.

S: You know what I mean?

S: Like I would definitely be biased and –

E: You've tested this die that you roll for accuracy and – Yeah, it's just a regular D6.

S: It's fine.

S: And every year it's a different number.

S: It's a different number that's – I think last year it was more number three I think or whatever, number two.

S: But it is completely random.

E: It's all random.

E: It's all random.

S: Because otherwise if you tried to randomize something yourself, you would do things like not pick the same one three in a row and then you would basically know that –

C: You would commit a bunch of weird fallacies in your attempt to randomize.

S: So I just roll a die. So always interesting.

S: Now you have one more episode this year right now.

S: Right now.

E: So this will count.

S: This will count.

S: We'll adjust the percentages.

S: We'll see how you guys do.

S: Is everyone – Now Ian, you actually had a couple – I think you went once last year and you were at 100%.

S: All right, Ian.

S: Good job, Ian.

IC: DWI.

IC: Out of one, you know, one of one.

S: All right.

S: So I have three items this week and the theme for this week – Now I mix it up.

S: Usually at the end of the year show I do some kind of end of the year themed thing.

S: So sometimes I'll do items that we've covered earlier in the year or news items that we didn't cover earlier in the year.

S: For the first time though, I'm going to do a 100-year shift.

S: So these are three items about 1922.

S: No way.

E: 2022.

E: No problem.

S: See how much you – Yeah, this is always – trying to place things in history is always interesting.

E: The answer is flappers.

S: OK.

S: Three science news items about 1922.

S: Here we go.

S: Item number one.

S: In 1922, physicians Frederick Banting and Charles Best of Toronto, Canada, injected the first patient with insulin, a 14-year-old boy with type 1 diabetes who would have died without the treatment.

S: Item number two.

S: In 1922, Walter Hurt, Bruno Tesch, and others developed hydrogen cyanide as a pesticide under the brand name Zyklon B.

S: And item number three.

B: That was 22 as well?

S: Yep.

S: The theme is 1922.

S: And in 1922, Walter Sutton and Theodore Bovary independently developed the Bovary-Sutton chromosome theory, identifying chromosomes as the carriers of genetic material.

S: All right.

S: Cara, since you are winning this year, you get to go first.

IC: How dare you?

IC: Actually, I'm winning.

S: No big deal.

C: Yeah, but that doesn't – Okay, so I don't know off the top of my head which of these really sticks out.

C: Okay, so 1922, I'm really trying to like put myself in what was going on in 1922, like what did laboratories look like, what kinds of discoveries were happening to them, all from memory.

C: So basically insulin, hydrogen cyanide as a pesticide, which I know the least about.

S: You recognize the name Zyklon B?

C: I recognize Zyklon B.

C: I've definitely heard that name, but I know the least about like when that would have been or if that is – I don't think you would pull one over on us and like use a different formula.

C: This probably was discovered.

C: It probably was discovered by these guys or developed.

C: But like I don't know if it was 1922 or if it was like, I don't know, 1960.

C: Wait, 60.

C: And then Walter Sutton and Theodore Bovary independently developing the Bovary-Sutton chromosome theory, identifying chromosomes as the carriers of genetic material.

C: I feel like we knew that before then because I feel like Mendel was like in the mid-1800s, and I know that he didn't know about genes, but like it was like Darwin first was saying there's something that's being passed on and we don't really know what it is.

C: And then Mendel was like there are these discrete packets of information, like look, the bees are wrinkly, and now they're not, and now they're wrinkly again.

C: But like nobody knew what genes were, and I feel like Mendel was in the mid-1800s, so I feel like that would have happened sooner.

C: So I don't know.

C: That's the one that sticks out to me as being like a little bit off.

C: Like I think it's too late for the Bovary-Sutton chromosome theory, but I could be way off on the pesticide too.

C: But I'm going to put my nickel down on the chromosomes, the third one.

S: Okay. And Che.

J: Did you just pick the last one, Cara?

J: I did.

J: I did.

J: I'm going to go with Cara.

J: Any particular reason?

J: Statistically making the correct decision.

C: Based on – oh, this is terrible.

C: Don't base anything you do right now on anything that Steve read previously, like science or fiction.

C: And remember I'm sick, Jay.

C: I'm very sick.

J: But I'm sick too.

J: That's why it makes perfect sense.

J: Right.

J: Yes.

S: All right. Evan?

E: Frederick Banting and Charles Best.

E: Do all these have like multiple people associated with them?

E: It looks like they do.

E: Most scientific discoveries do.

E: At least two.

E: Okay.

E: Yeah, that's true.

E: Of course, of course.

E: Insulin, huh?

E: Who injected the first patient with insulin?

E: Would that have been 1922?

E: That could have been earlier maybe.

E: 14-year-old boy.

E: I don't know.

E: I know nothing about this.

E: 1922 though.

E: Why do I have a feeling though insulin was around earlier than that?

E: This would have been the first time a patient got injected with it?

E: It seems a little off.

E: The second one, Walter Heard and Bruno Tesch and others developed.

E: Oh, boy.

E: The pesticide and then Zyklon B, of course, the gas used in the concentration camps.

S: So not the 1960s.

S: Right.

C: Right.

C: Right.

C: So that's what I was missing.

E: 1922.

E: Shit.

E: Under the brand name Zyklon B.

E: I don't know about this one either.

E: Shit.

E: I cannot make that connection at all.

E: Gee whiz.

E: I don't know.

E: I don't know.

E: Steve, I don't know any of these.

E: And even the last one.

E: I don't know.

E: I mean, I wasn't alive.

E: Don't blame me.

E: Gosh.

E: I guess I'll be different just for the sake of being different.

E: I'll say the Walter Heard and Bruno Tesch, they may have developed something, maybe a pesticide or something, but I don't know if it was Zyklon B specifically.

E: I think theirs in there is the fiction part of it.

E: I don't know.

E: But that's what it is.

B: OK, Bob.

B: So among the rogues, I'm last, finally.

B: No, Jay hasn't gone.

B: Jay hasn't gone either.

B: Wait, Jay went.

B: Jay went.

B: Jay went.

B: Jay went.

B: So that brings me to a paltry 14.6% in the fourth position.

B: So I thought about thanking you for that, but I decided against it, Steve.

B: So I will say, let's see.

B: Yeah, 1922, insulin.

B: Yeah, it could be.

B: Hydrogen cyanide, 1922 as well.

B: That could be.

B: That seems like a reasonable time.

B: The third one, though, the chromosome theory, 1922, just seems too late to me.

B: So I mean, I would have thought, you know, late 1800s, certainly before 1922.

B: So that's why I'll say that's fiction.

S: OK, and Ian, you get to go last.

IC: Does this mean you think I know more about all these items than anyone else?

IC: Sugar.

S: If that makes you feel better.

IC: Given that I replaced all of Steve's dice with trick dice in the house, I'm going to say that it's number one.

IC: I don't know.

IC: You know what?

IC: I must be ignorant because I thought Zyklon B was like a planet or something sci-fi.

IC: You know what?

IC: I'm going to be different as well and be I'm going to go with number one and say that it's not insulin.

IC: All right.

C: Boy, look at that.

C: No sweep for Steve.

S: So do you think insulin is earlier or later than 22?

IC: I would say it's earlier.

S: All right.

S: So yeah, we're all spread out.

S: I like to see that.

S: Bob Jay and Cara think that the chromosome theory is too late.

S: Evan thinks that Zyklon B was not developed by these guys or something different.

S: And then Ian thinks that insulin was, did you say earlier or later?

IC: I mean, the only thing is that you still have to carry vials or you did for a while of insulin and shoot yourself up.

IC: So maybe it is later.

IC: It's just like so kind of archaic.

IC: You know, I'm going to say later.

C: Yeah.

C: Just wow.

C: Wasn't it produced from like rabbits?

S: Maybe.

S: I don't know.

S: Horse pancreases actually.

S: Oh, horse.

S: Oh, okay.

S: Yeah, yeah, yeah.

S: Here we go.

S: Well, I guess we'll take them in order since we're all spread out.

S: In 1922, physicians Frederick Banting and Charles Best of Toronto, Canada injected the first patient with insulin, a 14-year-old boy with type 1 diabetes who would have died without the treatment.

S: Ian, you think this one is the fiction.

S: Everyone else thinks this one is science.

S: And this one is science.

S: Sorry, Ian.

S: Yeah, 1922.

S: Yeah, so we knew about insulin before then, but they had to purify it.

S: And these are the, you know, other people did that.

S: And these are the first, you know, physicians to actually inject it into a human being.

S: It had been studied in animals beforehand.

S: And the first injection only worked temporarily.

S: This is, again, type 1 diabetes prior to this was a death sentence.

S: You go into a diabetic coma and you die.

S: That's it.

S: You're basically not making any insulin and you can't live without insulin.

S: So this 14-year-old boy was basically in a diabetic coma.

S: They injected him with insulin.

S: It brought his sugar down a little bit, not enough.

S: Then they gave him a second injection and he basically completely normalized his blood sugar and he came out of it.

S: So, you know, we now know that.

S: This is amazing.

S: You know, you're not going to take somebody out of a diabetic coma with one injection of diabetes.

S: Essentially, the insulin helps the sugar get into the cells.

S: So the cells, all your sugar is in the blood.

S: It's not getting into the cells.

S: And so you give them an injection of insulin.

S: And yes, some of that blood sugar is going to go into the cells, but they're starved.

S: So you know, you need to keep doing that until you renormalize things.

S: So typically we put people on an insulin drip and just keep giving it to them until we normalize.

S: We don't want to renormalize their blood sugar.

S: Yeah, so that...

S: Yeah, to give too much.

S: Then you tank their blood sugar and then that's the opposite problem.

S: That could kill them too.

S: Put them in that, get a seizure or something.

S: So then you just give them some—you just give them sugar, right?

S: The treatment for that is sugar.

C: Yeah, because—yeah, then it'll just use

B: it. Right.

B: If you need a treatment, I guess that's a

S: good treatment. Yeah, yeah.

S: Sugar!

S: So absolute revolution.

B: Absolute revolution.

B: Oh my God, that must have been so amazing.

S: And so at first, we were just purifying it from the pancreases of animals and mostly horses.

S: And then of course, later on, we developed recombinant insulin.

S: Basically, I think it's yeast.

S: We have yeast cranking out insulin.

S: That's sweet.

S: That was another revolution.

S: Yeah.

S: Okay, let's go on to number two.

S: In 1922, Walter Hurt and Bruno Tesch and others developed hydrogen cyanide as a pesticide under the brand name Zyklon B.

S: As Evan pointed out, Zyklon B was the—what was—that is the gas that was used in gas chambers in the concentration camps.

S: That's—that's why that name is famous.

S: But it was developed as a pesticide, right?

S: And it's Zyklon B because this was a revised version of Zyklon A. You know, they had—they just—they tweaked it and so it was the second iteration, Zyklon 2.0 as it were.

C: It's weird, Ian.

C: I didn't know that either.

C: Like I didn't make that connection at all and this is like—I feel like this is new.

C: I had heard the word but this feels like new information.

C: Jay and Bob, you guys knew that?

C: Knew what?

J: The Zyklon B was the— Zyklon B was the gas.

C: No, the Zyklon B was the gas.

C: Oh, yeah.

J: I mean, I learned it like several times in—in school.

J: I watched a lot of World War II stuff.

E: So interesting.

E: I mean, it comes up all the time.

E: I watched a lot of World War II stuff.

C: Yeah, I guess I don't watch a lot of World War II stuff but I'm also wondering if there's been a generational shift in like how much detail is given.

C: Maybe.

C: You know, when we learn about this kind of stuff in school that there's like a fear of getting too graphic or too detail-oriented with kids.

C: Yeah, I don't know.

C: Jay Which is a mistake, I think.

C: We're demonizing corporations.

E: I agree but— Jay In Hebrew school, we learned about this when I was seven years old.

E: Yeah, of course.

E: Jay Yeah, of course.

S: So the question is, is 20 years too big a gap?

S: You know, this is like 20 years before it would have been used.

S: So Evan, you think this one is the fiction.

S: Everyone else thinks this one is science.

S: And this one is science.

S: Sorry, Evan.

S: Yeah, so that was the delay.

S: It was developed 20 years before it started to get used in the concentration camps.

S: And now it's absolutely famous for that reason, not as a pesticide.

S: It was used for de-lousing too.

S: And interesting— Jay That's where the Holocaust deniers come in.

S: Yeah, that's what I was going to bring up.

S: The Holocaust deniers will say that the concentration of hydrogen cyanide on the walls of the gas chambers was, I think, like only 1% of what you would find in a de-lousing chamber.

S: And therefore, the implications, it was negligible and therefore not used to kill people.

S: But they leave out the fact that lice are much less susceptible to cyanide.

S: And it takes 100 times the concentration to kill lice as it does to kill people.

S: They always just leave that little fact out there and just create an implication of a conspiracy rather than providing all the facts that you could see.

S: It makes perfect sense.

S: They also will measure the amount on walls that are now exposed to the environment.

S: So yeah, it kind of washes away over decades.

S: But if you sample walls that are still intact on the inside, absolutely a lethal dose for humans.

S: OK, all of this means that in 1922, Walter Sutton and Theodore Bovary independently developed the Bovary-Sutton chromosome theory, identifying chromosomes as the carriers of genetic material.

S: Is the fiction?

S: Why is it the fiction?

S: Does everybody agree that it's because it actually happened earlier?

C: Earlier.

C: That's my guess, is earlier.

S: Then when do you think it happened?

S: What did Bob?

J: I bet you it's late 1800s makes sense.

J: Yeah, late 1800s.

IC: I'm going to say they didn't independently do it.

IC: They did it dependently.

C: I feel like you would have to change at least one other thing.

C: But yeah, I'd say late 1800s.

C: 1902.

S: It was 20 years earlier.

S: Close to the 1800s.

S: Yeah, so you were right.

S: It was too early.

S: Yeah, that was too late rather.

S: So but yeah, remember though that Mendel's work was forgotten and had to be rediscovered.

S: So there was a delay.

S: That's why it wasn't the middle of the 1800s.

S: But we didn't know.

S: We didn't know.

S: We knew that even when we knew conceptually that something like genes existed and was being passed on, the units of inheritance, we didn't know physically what was the substrate.

S: And then so then it was discovered, well, it's the chromosomes.

S: And for a long time, the thinking was that proteins were the substrate of inheritance, proteins until it was demonstrated that it was.

S: Not a bad guess.

S: Proteins are everywhere.

S: Yeah, nucleic acids.

S: Yeah, not a bad guess, but we didn't know, you know.

S: That just happened to be a wrong hypothesis.

S: And it was eventually proved that it was the DNA, which of course makes up the chromosomes.

S: Yeah.

E: And then the DNA denialists came along.

E: Yeah.

E: Said, no, it was proteins, damn it.

S: Right, right, right.

S: All right, so good job, guys.

J: Thank you, Steve.

J: Thank you.

IC: I got a chocastitis.

IC: I don't know.

IC: Something's wrong with him.

S: Yeah, yeah.

E: You and I will have to talk later.

S: Right.

S: There will be puns.

Skeptical Quote of the Week ()

(quoted text)  – (author of quote), (description of author)

S: Evan, give us the last quote of the year. Last quote of 2020.

E: The last quote of 2022 by another scientist who unfortunately we lost in 2022.

E: Here's what she said.

E: I always knew I wanted to be a doctor.

E: Unfortunately, my parents believed that girls should do as well as boys.

E: So off I set.

E: Audrey Evans, born March 6, 1925, died September 29, 2022.

E: Pediatric oncologist who is known as the mother of neuroblastoma.

E: Whoa, nice.

E: And one of the co-founders of Ronald McDonald House.

E: Now, she was known as the mother of neuroblastoma because of all the advances, research, and work that she did for this type of cancer.

E: After years of treating this type of cancer, she reduced the mortality rate caused by neuroblastoma by about 50% and currently the survival rate is above 85% thanks to her.

E: In fact, there is something called the Evans Staging System for Neuroblastoma.

E: It is named for her.

E: Awesome.

E: Sure it's not named after you?

E: Oh, yeah.

E: Well, of course.

E: Yes, asterisk.

E: I'm fond of that name.

J: Hey, Steve.

J: Yeah.

J: I think every year I say something about the hard work that you put in and how- He says work harder.

J: Without your leadership and persistent banging on the table to get us to do everything that we have to do to get this show done, it wouldn't get done.

J: I mean, by Steve's force of will, you know, like the spice.

J: He's like a mentat.

J: You make, you know, force of mind, whatever.

J: Remember that?

IC: Sure.

IC: Name that reference.

IC: Come on.

J: But I wanna thank you, Steve.

J: Do it.

J: I wanna thank you for taking me on this amazing journey which is the SGU.

J: It's like, you know, from the very beginning, I never thought in a million years that we would be what we are and be able to do the things that we do and I owe it all to you.

S: Thank you, brother.

S: It is a fun journey to take with all of you guys, with my family and friends, my close friends.

S: You guys are all family.

S: We're family.

E: I mean, let's face it.

E: We are family.

S: Yeah.

S: It is a family.

S: Yeah, I mean, this would be so– Spooky and spooky.

S: I could do this by myself, but why?

S: It wouldn't–it would be really boring.

S: You know what I mean?

S: The collaboration is fun, getting together is fun.

S: As I said, like this is like the funnest two, three hours of my week chatting with all you guys even though it's virtual.

S: It's still great to get together with everybody.

S: And what's more fun to talk about than science and critical thinking?

S: Oh, my gosh.

E: Seriously.

E: Absolutely.

B: Our voices will be on the internet until the post-apocalypse.

B: I have to tell an anecdote now about this.

S: So we were driving to the airport.

S: All the guys were in the car.

S: Well, no George, no Cara, but the guys from Connecticut were all in the car.

S: And we had a driver to take us to the last leg.

S: We wouldn't have to park at the airport.

S: And so we're just having a typical conversation, right?

S: We were chatting about what we were gonna be covering on the upcoming, you know, live shows that we were gonna do.

S: We were talking about Fusion.

S: We were talking about the chat GPT and a bunch of other stuff about Artemis, you know, all the good stuff.

S: And about 40-50 minutes into the ride, we're getting close to the airport.

S: The driver, do you know him personally, Ian?

S: I know you helped him with the ride.

IC: No.

IC: He's like a mutual.

S: He was just a random guy.

S: Yeah.

S: Yeah.

S: So he's just like, who are you guys?

S: He's like, I have to say–

B: I thought he said, what are you guys?

S: Oh, yeah. What are you guys?

S: This is the most interesting– No, he said who?

S: I think this is the most interesting conversation I've ever heard.

S: And he was just like fascinated by the whole thing.

S: Like, who the hell talks like that?

S: So we told him, yeah, well, we do this for a living, basically.

S: Like, we've been doing it for 17 years, having conversations like this and making it interesting.

S: And it was fun because we were just chatting.

S: Like, we weren't doing a show, but it was the same conversation.

S: You know what I mean?

S: Which I think has always been the strength of our show–

B: Yeah, for sure.

S: –is that it is like we're just having a chat among friends who are interested in science and critical thinking and that sort of thing.

S: And just cool sci-fi stuff.

IC: Yeah.

IC: Shout out to Tim.

IC: You'll hear this after you've been through several hundred episodes.

E: You'll eventually hear it.

E: He was a nice guy.

IC: And speaking of it, shout out to our patrons and listeners who keep this thing afloat.

E: You know?

E: Yes.

E: Hear, hear.

J: Yeah, our patrons have an awesome thing going on in Discord, by the way.

J: I mean, I keep talking to Sharon, who is one of the mods on Discord.

J: What a community.

J: The SGU has a vibrant, happy, and very discussion-heavy community going on.

J: And we really appreciate every single patron that we have out there on or off Discord.

J: I mean, we really couldn't do it without you guys.

J: It means the world to us that you believe in what we're doing enough to become a part of it in a sense.

J: I hope you have a wonderful holiday.

J: Happy New Year.

J: And to the rest of you guys, it is my honor to work with all of you.

J: Likewise.

S: It really is.

S: Yeah.

S: Likewise.

S: And I agree.

S: Yeah.

S: Again, this would be a pretty empty exercise if we weren't part of a bigger community, if there weren't people out there who were giving us feedback, sending us emails, being part of the discussion.

S: I think there's a lot of negative things you could say about social media and the impact it's had on the world.

S: But I think the one big positive thing is that it turns communication into a dialogue.

S: You know what I mean?

S: We're not just lecturing.

S: We're not talking at people.

S: We're having a dialogue and it's part of a broader discussion and dialogue, whether it's in the comments or on over email or on the Discord or on Facebook.

S: That's the best way to learn.

S: Yeah.

S: And we consume a lot of that.

S: We are taking all that feedback.

S: It's constantly being directed back into the show.

S: And that's, again, the other thing that has made this an awesome ride is just the community of critical thinkers and skeptics out there that we're interfacing with.

S: Really, really happy with the community that we've helped to build.

S: Hear, hear.

S: Roger that.

S: All right, guys.

S: Well, congratulations on another year.

S: We've basically completed 17 years of the SGE.

S: We're going into year 18.

S: Oh, my God.

S: Yes.

S: Oh, man.

S: Yeah.

S: Bring it.

S: Yeah, let's do it.

S: It is amazing.

S: We're two years away from our 1,000th episode.

S: Oh, my gosh.

S: 1,000?

E: Yeah.

E: Each part out, Joe Rogan.

B: Something special, like broadcast naked something.

B: I have one thing from the listeners for the

IC: year in review. They love Bob's innuendo, gird your loins.

IC: So maybe that'll do the merch.

IC: No, they don't.

IC: They're lying.

IC: Drop a little Gird Your Loins in Bob's face.

B: I have my finger on the pulse of awesomeness.

B: That would be a good T-shirt.

S: It would be around Gird Your Loins.

B: Gird Your Loins with the SGE.

J: No.

E: Cara gets a B-tool over that, I think.

S: It just means to tie up your tunic.

S: That's all it means, Cara.

C: Yeah, it's totally how Bob's using it.

E: I know.

B: Adjust your loin cloth.

B: It has so many meanings.

B: That's why I love it.

B: All right.

Signoff/Announcements ()

S: —and until next week, this is your Skeptics' Guide to the Universe.

S: Well, thank you all for joining me this week and this year.

E: Yes, great year.

E: It's our pleasure.

E: Thank you.

S: And thank you for joining us, Ian.

S: And Ian, we have to recognize all of the hard work that you do.

S: I know it's mostly behind the scenes.

IC: I know you're going to cut this out.

IC: I know.

IC: It's fine.

S: I'm not going to cut it out.

S: I know you want to be the man behind the curtain, and you never want the spotlight to be focused on you.

S: I get it.

S: But here it is.

S: It's your deep professionalism, and I respect that.

S: But every now and then, we have to acknowledge all of the, not just the hard work that you do, but the real expertise that you bring to the technology.

S: And the all-around awesome tea-drinking guy

B: you are. Yeah.

E: Yeah, you're just fun to be with, too.

E: I love working with you, Ian.

J: I also love eating with you.

J: You're so much fun to have a meal with, man.

J: Thanks, guys.

S: And again, it's not just that, but you've become a really close friend.

S: Again, the people we end up working with, it's not just that they're working for us.

S: It's that they really become part of the family.

S: Yeah, they got the whole package.

S: Family.

S: Yeah, they're absolutely part of the family.

S: Because we have to, you know, we're goombas.

S: You know, we've got to work with family.

S: That's true.

S: That's what I'm about.

J: And while we're talking about Ian, we can't forget Kelly, who has been an intern, tempered for you for us.

E: Thank you, Kelly.

J: Kelly has taken on a lot of the stamina-based work that I do.

J: You know, she does a lot of social media.

J: She's been going through some emails.

J: And I just really appreciate her, and she is awesome.

J: She's helped us in a lot of ways.

J: Thank you for the baked goods, too.

E: They're delicious.

S: Thank you.

S: Since we're spreading the love, we also have to acknowledge one of our primary partners in crime, George Robb.

S: Oh, yes.

E: Yes.

S: Here, here.

S: George is also a great friend, again, somebody that we consider to be family that we met through skepticism.

S: He is the leader of our live events.

S: When we go on an event weekend where we do the extravaganza, you know, George completely runs that.

S: That is all him.

S: And he is, whenever we need anything like real creative, he's our go-to guy.

S: He's just such a funny, creative guy with a great skill set.

S: So he's been a fantastic addition to SGU activity.

J: I love working with George.

J: Yeah.

J: I love – Just love hanging out with him, too.

B: Oh, yeah.

J: Talking to George is so much fun.

J: I mean, I like the group dynamic that we have, and George adds a lot to it.

J: And I particularly love when we're doing the extravaganza and George is out front.

J: You know, we're sitting in the chairs behind him and I just always have this moment where I'm like, oh, my God, this guy is so funny.

J: I love working with him so much.

J: He makes me laugh, I think, more than anybody I know.

B: He's a funny bastard.

B: Holy crap.

B: He comes out with stuff.

B: We're like, holy crap, that was funny.

B: All right.

S: Well, thanks again, everyone.

S: All right, Steve.

S: This is it for real.

S: This is really it.

S: And until next week and next year, this is the Skeptics' Guide to the Universe.

S: Skeptics' Guide to the Universe is produced by SGU Productions, dedicated to promoting science and critical thinking. For more information, visit us at theskepticsguide.org. Send your questions to info@theskepticsguide.org. And, if you would like to support the show and all the work that we do, go to patreon.com/SkepticsGuide and consider becoming a patron and becoming part of the SGU community. Our listeners and supporters are what make SGU possible.

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