SGU Episode 878

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SGU Episode 878
May 7th 2022
(brief caption for the episode icon)
SGU 877                      SGU 879
Skeptical Rogues
S: Steven Novella
B: Bob Novella
C: Cara Santa Maria
J: Jay Novella
E: Evan Bernstein
Quote of the Week
You know the very powerful and the very stupid have one thing in common. They don’t alter their views to fit the facts; they alter the facts to fit their views.
1977 Doctor Who, fictional British TV Time Lord
Links
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Show Notes
Forum Discussion

Introduction, SGU turns 17, Favorite Memories

Voice-over: You're listening to the Skeptics' Guide to the Universe, your escape to reality.

S: Hello and welcome to the Skeptics' Guide to the Universe. Today is Wednesday, May the 4^th, 2022, and this is your host, Steven Novella. Joining me this week are Bob Novella...

B: Hey, everybody!

S: Cara Santa Maria...

C: Howdy.

S: Jay Novella...

J: Hey guys.

S: ...and Evan Bernstein.

E: So this is the day when we're reminded that "sand is coarse and it gets everywhere."

C: May the 4^th be with you.

S: Star Wars day. Which is, which coincidentally is one day prior to the anniversary of the SGU.

B: Oh boy.

S: This episode completes 17 years of the SGU. Heading into year 18, can you guys believe it?

E: Oh my gosh.

B: What the hell man.

E: 17 years.

J: That's been like the majority of my higher thinking life.

S: Sure.

J: You know what I mean?

S: Adult life.

J: Yeah. That's, that's amazing guys. We should really all be proud of ourselves.

C: That's nuts.

J: Except you Cara, I mean you've only been here...

C: How many years have I been here? Now when did I join?

E: 2015.

C: What?

S: Seven years.

C: Seven whole years!?

E: I know.

J: Oh my god, wait a minute, doesn't it seem a lot shorter than that?

C: It does, it's because covid interrupted all of our time understanding.

J: Oh my god.

S: Podcastus interruptus.

C: Oh gosh.

S: We have over 140 million lifetime downloads. 140 million. Wow.

E: Gee whiz.

J: That's good work boys. (Cara laughs)

S: I mean yeah, we haven't missed an episode.

B: Damn.

S: Every, every week, every single week for almost 17 years. At the very beginning there was a couple of weeks that we skipped but then.

E: Yes we were getting our foot.

S: Yeah we got into a weekly schedule and we haven't missed an episode since.

E: Nope. And 17 years by the way is 536 million 112 000 seconds.

B: How very Bob-esked.

S: This is episode 878. 878. So yeah, we're going to be like, we're only two and a half years away from a thousand episodes.

B: A big round number. Yeah, wow.

E: And and I hope we have big big big plans for that.

S: Yeah, but we got a couple years to make them.

E: Yeah, I know exactly.

J: So after 17 years of making these podcasts, if you enjoy this show, if you feel like if you feel like you've gotten something out of listening to this show, please consider becoming a patron of ours, because that allows us to do a lot of, you know, a lot of things that that everybody enjoys. Like you know extended shows, conferences, live events. It allows me to work for the company and do all the behind the scenes stuff that I do to make everything work. You can go to patreon.com/SkepticsGuide. And if not, you could continue listening to the show and you could give us a good review on whatever podcast player you're using. And I'd like to thank you Steve for being an incredible leader and you know and guide and to me you've been you know, you're someone that I look up to and I really appreciate everything that you you do that allows us to make this show.

S: Well thank you Jay, I mean it's one of the things that makes this show fun, I mean I know that I couldn't have done this if I was working by myself for 17 years. I look forward to recording the show every week, it's just a lot of fun hanging out with you guys, for a couple hours, you know?

C: Yeah.

S: And that carries, carries over, you know? To the podcast itself.

E: Absolutely.

J: That's the [inaudible] potatoes man right there, that is, that is why we're all here I think because if we didn't love each other and enjoy doing this work together it would not be here. But sometimes we all get pissed at Bob, you know? Sometimes we get angry with Bob and Bob's, you know, he talks about us behind our backs to the other people and you know, it's the drama, but we all put up with it because you're in the end it's all good. (Cara laughs)

B: Tank you. I think?

J: Do any of you guys have a favorite memory? From the entire ride?

C: There's too many!

E: Yes oh my gosh.

J: I think one of them was when we were all in the van in Scotland.

E: Okay.

J: And the the driver pulled over to ask for directions.

B: Oh god.

J: Now I will remind you that the driver was born and bred in Scotland. Asked, ask this man walking down the street, you know, hey we're looking for this tomb. And the guy answers her and she goes okay thank you, we drive away and she goes: "I have no idea what that guy just said".

C: None of us did either. She could at least understand it.

B: That was thick.

J: I was able to detect that he was using language.

C: Yeah.

J: I just had what the language was it. The fact that she didn't understand him like made everything that happened in Scotland better to me.

E: It was like Scottish Gaelic or something.

S: You remember what she said, what she actually said after he finished?

J: What did she say?

S: She said magic.

J: Oh yeah.

C: Magic, oh yeah. And no he wasn't actually speaking Gaelic, he was just speaking with a really broad accent. Like, that's, so you just said it was really thick, so in Scotland they say broad. So if somebody's super broad, they've got such a thick accent. Yeah.

E: Like that kid stuck on the roof.

C: Like the kid on the roof, yeah. (laughs)

J: And that, that same day some of us had haggis.

C: That's true. I think we all tasted it.

E: I tasted the haggis.

S: Surprisingly enjoyed the haggis it was very good.

E: Yeah they spice it up for the tourists, you know?

B: Yeah I suspect it was tourist haggis.

J: I know right?

E: Bring out the "haggis".

C: Do you know that what you ate is I think illegal in parts of the US?

B: Whaaat?

E: Oh it wouldn't meet the safety codes?

C: Well it's not that that it's, you can't import, okay, yeah in '71 it became illegal to import haggis into the US from the UK because we have a ban on food containing sheep lung. And 10 to 15 of haggis is made out of sheep lung. So we we can't have that here.

J: I don't know where the idea got into my head. But I thought that haggis was like the organ, the internal organs are cooked inside of the of a stomach and then like they literally cut the stomach open and the organs come piling out onto the table. It's minced meat, it's minced meat.

C: It's minced meat, it's just there's a lot of meat is organ meat.

S: It's organ meat, yeah. But the thing is if when you're in Scotland you got to try the haggis, right? You just got to do that.

C: And they do, they do package it in the stomach Jay. So you're, that's why you have that idea. Sometimes generic haggis is like a a casing that's fake.

E: Casing, like these intestines are casings.

C: But the casing is is traditionally stomach.

E: That's all it is.

S: Although I have to say yeah you know, I'm usually like whenever I'm in a location I will try whatever like the most iconic culinary dishes of that region. But I completely went out on the Vegemite, sorry I just.

C: Really? You went out you went haggis but not Vegemite?

B: I tried it.

E: Did you, you didn't, huh?

S: Vegemite is exactly the kind of thing I find disgusting.

C: It is gross. But it's still, it's just yeast extract.

S: I know, that yeasty fermented, bleh, no I can't. (laughter)

B: I tried it. I remember I ate it. I ate it and I'll, I'll describe it in the way that my friend described it when I brought some home and had her tasted at work. She said it tastes like feet. It was you know, it was horrible, absolutely horrible. But you know whatever a lot of people hate peanut butter. But it was just like not for me, oh boy. (Cara laughs) I can't even imagine.

S: Have any of you guys had kimchi?

C: Oh yeah.

E: Oh sour, yeah.

S: It's like fermented.

C: It's just fermented cabbage, fermented vegetables. Korean food.

E: Yeah, stick it in the ground for a year.

S: Not gonna happen, not gonna happen.

E: No kimchi for you Steve?

C: That's so funny. So you don't like sauerkraut either? Do you like pickles?

S: I love pickles, I could eat, and I like sauerkraut that's not, that's a different flavor.

C: Yeah that's true but it's a similar process.

S: Yeah well it's the, I think it's that long duration of fermenting that you know gives it that rotten flavor, it's like rotting vegetable matter, why would I eat it?

C: I feel you, I don't like it either but it doesn't, it doesn't, it's not as visceral, no pun intended, to me the way that haggis is. Like, ugh, yeah.

S: When I was in Vienna i did have the wiener schnitzel and it was awesome.

J: What's that made out of?

S: Well wiener just means like Viennese, you know, and then the schnitzel is...

C: It's usually veal, right?

S: It's veal, it's veal.

C: I think that's one of the main meats.

Jay's receives Critical Thinking Award (8:50)

• 2022 Critical Thinker Award

J: Hey can I tell you guys something cool?

B: No.

J: So Bob emails me and says Jay, are you gonna respond to this email? And then Cara emailed me Jay are you gonna respond to this email? And it turns out I won an award.

C: Oh yeah. And you, and you took a really long time to respond to the email. Well that's that is a sign that I have so many SGU emails to go through that sometimes you know I can't get to every single email every day.

E: Jay won the 2014, what was it now? (laughter)

J: No so this is from the curiosity foundation and they, you know awarded me the critical thinking award.

B: All right Jay.

J: And I am completely blown away, I really, I don't like to to brag in any way but this happened and I really wanted everyone to know that this this foundation exists, their goal is to promote evidence-based education and teaching critical thinking. They also want to connect with educators or anyone who's interested in developing tools and materials to promote evidence-based education practices and teaching critical thinking. So this is a really, you know, really valuable foundation that they created. And I'm just you know, I told Steve when I was talking to him about this like I never in a thousand years would have thought I was going to win an award, a critical thinking award. So it means the world to me.

B: Deserved jay.

S: Was that for one of your rants that you gave on our live stream or was that for something else? (laughter)

J: Well there was an episode, so the person that I was talking to.

S: I know they mentioned your passion as being one of those.

J: There was an episode that we were talking about, where I gave like a kind of impromptu talk afterwards, you know, on the show about you know how important science is and how you know wonderful it is and that you know the the feeling of discovery. All that stuff. I just said something moderately inspirational. But, you know, I mean I say a lot more on the live stream to be honest with you, right? Like livestream is where it all comes out. But no, I am, I am after 17 years. Like I science to me is way more meaningful right now than it was 17 years ago.

S: Oh yeah. No it's a, you know, it's a lifesaver.

J: It really is I mean it's a big big part of my life and it inspires me, you know, it's one of the things that keeps me interested in our reality and teaching kids critical thinking, and teaching them the love of science I think is is one of the best things you could ever do with your time if you have children. Start with magic and then you know then get them asking questions. Why is it that people like magic? And why is it you know how do you fool people? And why are people able to be fooled? And then you just start rolling it out from there you know that's what that's what I'm doing with my nine-year-old.

C: Nine years old?

J: Yes.

C: Wow. Really he's nine?

J: My son, yeah he's not, I know, he's going by fast, right? He is, he is absorbing critical thinking like you know, I was asking Steve like what's something I could teach him about logic? Like how do you teach someone about logic that's nine year old? So I said, I looked up logic and I looked up reason and they both use each other in their definitions. And I'm trying to like you know give him like the foundation you know the bottom level, like what does he need to understand, so I can start teaching him things out of our book. Logic I thought was one of the key things and I'm like Steve, what can I, how do, how can I possibly teach a nine-year-old who has no concept of logic, what logic is? And Steve's like, well just do the a equals b equals c. See if he could figure that puzzle out and understand, get him to wrap his head around that and then at least you have the idea that you know there's thinking is a process that brings you to a conclusion. And I gotta tell you guys, I said Dylan, let's say that a is equal to b and b is equal to c. So what does that mean about a and c? And he goes dad they're they, they're, equal to each other, it's like they're all apples. I was like oh my god, I was so proud of him. That felt so freaking good, oh my god.

B: But he should have said meatballs but yeah that was good.

E: I got the same question wrong when Jay asked me. (laughter)

S: All right, good work boys.

Quickie with Bob (13:12)

• Solar Gravitational Lens update

B: ... If you watched Episode 812 from early 2021, I entertainingly discussed the possibility of using the Sun as a solar gravitational lens.

News Items

S:

B:

C:

J:

E:

(laughs) (laughter) (applause) [inaudible]

Sustainable Jet Fuel (17:41)

• Sustainable Jet Fuels

Dog Personality (29:14)

• Massive study of pet dogs shows breed does not predict behaviour

COVID and Cognitive Aging (44:19)

• Cognitive Impairment From Severe COVID-19 Equivalent to 20 Years of Aging

Fertilizer Shortage (54:42)

• Can the World Feed Itself? Historic Fertilizer Crunch Threatens Food Security

Cosmic Expansion (1:04:13)

• The universe could stop expanding 'remarkably soon', study suggests

Who's That Noisy? (1:13:12)

Answer to previous Noisy:

Yellow-cheeked gibbons

New Noisy (1:18:12)

[machinery sounds, as of a jet engine or train rolling]

J: ... So if you think you know what this Noisy is, or if you heard something cool this week, email me at WTN@theskepticsguide.org.

Announcements (1:18:51)

J: Steve, a few things to talk about.

Questions/Emails/Corrections/Follow-ups (1:21:32)

Email #1: Lemuria

_consider_using_block_quotes_for_emails_read_aloud_in_this_segment_
with_reduced_spacing_for_long_chunks –

Science or Fiction (1:27:10)

Hearmepurr: check out the cool "tooltip" link (hover mouse and pause when you see the ?) I made that links to the follow-up discussion in 879

Theme: Critical Thinking Item #1: A recent systematic review of belief in the paranormal finds a robust correlation with intuitive thinking, increased confirmation bias, and reduced conditional reasoning. Item #2: A recent study finds that the more certain subjects were about the future course of the pandemic the more likely they were to follow recommended preventive protocols. Item #3: Research consistently finds that people have an action bias – they will favor doing something over doing nothing even if it worsens outcomes.

Answer	Item
Fiction	More certain, more likely
Science	Paranormal beliefs
Science	people have an action bias

Host	Result
Steve	win

Rogue	Guess
Bob	People have an action bias
Evan	More certain, more likely
Jay	More certain, more likely
Cara	More certain, more likely

Voice-over: It's time for Science or Fiction.

Skeptical Quote of the Week (1:42:34)

You know the very powerful and the very stupid have one thing in common.
They don’t alter their views to fit the facts; they alter the facts to fit their views.
– 1977 Doctor Who, fictional British TV Time Lord

Signoff

S: —and until next week, this is your Skeptics' Guide to the Universe.

S: Skeptics' Guide to the Universe is produced by SGU Productions, dedicated to promoting science and critical thinking. For more information, visit us at theskepticsguide.org. Send your questions to info@theskepticsguide.org. And, if you would like to support the show and all the work that we do, go to patreon.com/SkepticsGuide and consider becoming a patron and becoming part of the SGU community. Our listeners and supporters are what make SGU possible.

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