SGU Episode 6

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SGU Episode 6
7th July 2005
(brief caption for the episode icon)
SGU 5                      SGU 7
Skeptical Rogues
S: Steven Novella
B: Bob Novella
E: Evan Bernstein
P: Perry DeAngelis
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Introduction

S: Hello and welcome to the Skeptic's Guide to the Universe. Today is Thursday, July 7th 2005. I'm you're host, Steven Novella, President of the New England Skeptical Society. With me tonight are Evan Bernstein...

E: Hi everyone.

S: Perry DeAngelis...

P: Present.

S: and Robert Novella.

B: Here.

News Items

London train bombing (0:25)

S: So dominating the news today, not a skeptical topic but but worthy of mention, was the massive terrorist attack on the London subway system. Um, the toll stands now at over, um, 40 killed and over 700 injured. Um, just a massive attack so of course our thoughts are with the families and victims of that horrible attack.

P: Amen.

Science Magazine's 125 unanswered questions (0:48)

S: I thought we would start today with, uh, just talking about Science Magazine, they have their 125^th anniversary and to commemorate that they have compiled, uh, 125 science questions that we still do not know and it's an interesting, an interesting, read.

P: I actually filled in the answers to those questions and sent them in to Science...

S: Did you?

P: they'll be in the next issue.

S: They're going to publish them next time?

P: Published in the next issue.

B: Perry, number 7 was wrong by the way.

P: (laugh) that's your opinion.

E: (laugh)

P: You're opinion.

S: So, uh, these are, uh, mostly big, huge science that uh still do not have an answer, for example, what controls organ regeneration? How does, how do, skin cells differentiate into nerve cells, uh, when an embryo is developing?

B: Skin cells? You mean they become skin cells first, then they become nerve cells? Don't they just go from like a stem cell to a nerve cell?

P: Let's ask a, a neurologist. Steve, how do, um, skin cells...

B: You know what I mean?

P: turn into nerve cells?

S: I don't think they're talking about a fully differentiated skin cell but more of a, a filler cell. The kind that, that would then like form scar tissue or cause regeneration in some animals.

P: So this sounds like it's part of the stem cell debate.

S: Yeah, it's definitely along that line. Um, they're talking about, I guess, adult derived stem cells...

P: That's the B-team of stem cells.

B: Rather specific to me and not more of a general statement.

S: How are memories stored and retrieved? Well we have somewhat of an answer.

B: Yeah, we got a decent idea about that.

S: One is are we alone in the universe. Still an unanswered question.

P: I just saw War of the Worlds I dunno.

S, B, E: (laugh)

B: Perry, what planet did you come from?

P: (laugh) That's a, that's a secret. That was question 126 I didn't quite make it...

B, E: (laugh)

P: on the list.

S: What are the limits of conventional computing?

B: Oh, come on. I've read articles about that.

S, E: (laugh)

S: So, you're not impressed with their, uh...

B: Not, not with a couple of them.

S: questions?

B: I mean, there are physical limits. Physics places limits on, on uh, on what computers can do. You know the, you know, if you had, if your, if your smallest element was an electron travelling at the speed of light then this is how fast your computer could possibly be, you know, including heat dissipation and all sorts of, well, you know, whatever maybe...

P: It's time for a trivia question. What is Data's (Star Trek Next Gen's) ultimate storage capacity?

B: Oh God it was like, uh... oo... 600...

P: Come on, Bob.

B: 600 petaflops?

(laughs)

P: That's not what he said.

E: Oh my god...

S: What did he say, Perry?

P: 800 quadrillion bits.

S: 800 quadrillion bits. That's a lot.

P: He announced it on one of the shows.

B: How many bytes is that?

E: Ya know I remember, I remember that and I remember calculating what exactly what that was and not being very impressed about it.

P: Really?

S: Yeah.

B: Well it was 1980... 9.

E: Considering...

P: Yeah think about how long ago that show was written.

B: I mean really it was pre, it was pre-internet, that show. Umm... and computers were far less powerful then they...

P: if it was...

E: Still...

P: If it was written today then it would have been considerably higher.

E: Still you would think, you know, they would, they would, take today's ultimate and just add, you know, add 4, you know, 4 orders of magnitude.

B: Right. A googleplex to the googleplex power...

E: (laugh)

B: or something like that.

P: That's true, in fact I'm often startled at, at, at, at the density of television writers. I'm really shocked.

E: (laugh).

S: Star Trek was notorious, notorious for techno babble. Scientific, technological sounding, you know, sound bites, but ultimately vacuous.

P: Right.

S: Here's a good one, um, can the laws of physics be unified? That is definitely...

E: Ah

S: and if so, how? That's a huge unanswered question.

E: It goes from questions like that to questions like this. What is the structure of water? I mean that sounds very basic. That sounds like something that scientists should be able to all agree on at this point of our knowledge of science, but...

S: They must, they must be talking about homeopathy.

E: Right. Researchers continue to tussle over how many bonds each H₂O molecule makes with it's nearest neighbors.

S: Huh.

E: That's fascinating.

S: Not, not the structure of a single water molecule, but the greater structure, the super structure of water. How they interact with each other.

P: How many bonds? Hmm.

E: How many bonds.

P: Count them. Are they individual?

E: It's either one or two. I don't know.

S: Well, um, while we're perusing this, uh, science trivia, that's a good segue into the next segment of our program which is Science or Fiction. (5:54)

B: Ooo.

E: Uh, fiction.

B: (laugh) Yes.

P: (laugh)

Science or Fiction (6:04)

VO: It's time to play Science OR Fiction

S: So the, there are, as, as we do each week I will introduce, uh, three science news items. Two are real, one is fake, and my skeptical colleagues will have to sniff out the fake science story. And typically I will make the fake one as plausible as possible but you have to, to know what the false element is to really figure it out.

E: I have a question before we continue.

S: Sure.

E: Did your false statement from last week turn out to be true this week?

S: Not as far as I know.

E: Well, then I guess the streak is officially over then?

S: The streak is over unless something crops up soon, but the, uh. Last week the false one was that, um, chimpanzees have been observed writing, communicating in written symbols, in written was the new element. So are you ready for the three items?

B: Yeah.

B: Sure.

S: Okay. Again I'll list all three and then, uh, I'll give you a chance to comment. Item number one, scientists have created a new form of matter called a super fluid gas. Item number two, scientists discovered the oldest living organism, a conifer, that's an evergreen tree, over 10,000 years old. And item number three, uh, scientists have discovered a fossil of a mammal with a dinosaur in it's stomach. So, those are the three items.

B: Well this is kinda weird because I actually think I've read about all three of those. But...

P: (laugh)

E: The third one sounds familiar to me.

S: One must be not, not quite true.

B: After the first two I'm thinking, "Oh, I got this one," then the third one

S: It's gotta be number three. They all sound plausible, huh?

P: Did you read about one of them in a comic book?

B: (laugh)

P: No. All right so we got super fluid gas. What is that? I don't know.

S: A new form of matter, called a super fluid gas.

P: Super fluid gas. And we got number three was a dinosaur in the stomach, and number two was the conifer 10,000 years old.

S: 10,000 years old.

E: At least the super fluid gas is not trading at $61 a barrel, I can guarantee that.

S: Probably much more.

P: Don't get me sh-tarted.

E: Yeah.

P: Uh...

E: But, we digress. I'm going to take a stab first. I'm going to say number three is the false one and I don't think, I, I think, and, here's my reasoning. I think there's uh, Steve, I think what you're doing is, uh, using the words, "mammal" and "dinosaur" and there's some kinda play in there, it's not quite exactly the way you phrased it. Something similar but not actually a dinosaur in the stomach of a mammal. So, I kinda think that's why number three I think is false.

S: But I will try not to, um, be tricky or or to play on words, and the scientific facts are either true or not true. So what we're talking about is that fossil evidence that a mammal had eaten a dinosaur.

E: I'll stay with number three.

S: Okay. Bob? Perry? What's your...

P: Bob is next.

S: Bob, is you gut talking to you?

B: Perry's next.

(laugh)

B: Yeah, my guts saying, "I have no idea because all, they all ring a bell with me. So, um, super fluid gas. I've read about the dinosaur and the mammal...

P: Bob you've gotta know about super fluid gas. You're mister physics.

B: (cough) Pardon me. Well I'm actually listing here the states of matter that I am familiar with and I come up with 5, uh 6. We got a gas, we got liquid, you have solid.

E: I know those three.

B: Right, you guys know those? And there's, uh, then there's a plasma...

P: Oh yeah.

B: which is basically um... molecules, uh, I mean atoms that have had their electrons ripped, ripped from the nucleus. Um... and that's like the atmosphere of the sun is a plasma and is, it is the most common phase of matter in the universe, is plasma. Then you got a Bose-Einstein condensate and a thermionic condensate and I did, I did read about another state that they were talking about and I kinda remember it being something like a super fluid gas.

P: Bo-bo-bo boson condesate?

B: Bose-Einstein condesate.

P: Is that the water that collects on cows in the morning?

(laugh)

B: Exactly. Exactly. Wow.

E: Bovine condensation.

B: I'm surprised you know that one that was good. Um...

P: Uh...

B: It's really a very interesting state of matter but, um... god super fluid gas. Connifer. The dino I'm most confident about. The conifer, god, I read something about, uh, uh, something tree related that was extremely old. Wow, Perry you go. I'ma have to mull this over a few more seconds.

P: Eh... have to guess. Mmmm... could a plant survive 10,000 years? I suppose it was frozen solid. Evergreen tree. Be in a cold climate. Be in a new cold climate, old cold climate. That seems possible. I have no idea about the super fluid gas, though, though that's an interesting term for Steve to just have come up with out of the blue. Maybe somebody was working on it or something. All right I'm I'm I'm guessing I'm gonna go with number one. I think number one is false.

S: Okay. Bob? Gotta gotta make a decision.

B: Yeah.

S: Put your nickle down.

B: I'm gonna, I'm gonna go with the super fluid gas. I think the, um, the name is subtly incorrect. Um... why, why would they have gas as a different state of matter when it can't really be a gas. Um... the conifer, man I remember maybe it wasn't quite 10,000 years maybe Steve is exaggerating the age a little, but I remember it was quiet quiet old. Maybe it's only 5,000 but I'm gonna go with the super fluid gas.

P: So we got two ones...

S: And a three.

P, E: And a three.

S: (laugh) Okay.

B: From that laugh, I uh...

S: So we'll take them in order we'll start with number one.

P: Alright.

S: MIT physicists create a new form of matter, is the headline. What they did was is they super cool a gas and the key is to get the gas to achieve a super fluid state. What they call high temperature super fluidity. Now, to them, high temperature...

B: Oh, high temperature.

S: yeah but high temperature, that was really the breakthrough but, this the high temperature is 50 billionths of a degree Kelvin. They call that high temperature. 50 nano-Kelvins. But that's higher than anyone has been able to do it before. And the importance is, you know, to super fluidity is sorta similar to super conductivity. It would be a very very useful property, um, for materials.

B: A super fluid, a super fluid could do very unusual things like like travel up hill things like that...

S: Right.

B: very bizarre behavior for super fluids.

S: So, they and they are calling it a super fluid gas. It is a gas. It is a fermion gas, Bob, you actually were very very close to that.

P: I said number one wasn't true, right?

E: Yes, that's right.

P: Why did I say that?

S: I dunno.

P: I mean I specifically said that's not something you'd make up.

S: I guess maybe you gave me more credit in the end.

P: I just I just got it wrong in my own head. I was stupid.

S: Okay.

B: No argument here.

P: Alright.

E: Let's move on.

S: Number two. The earth's oldest living inhabitant, called Methuselah, a biblical reference...

B: Yep.

S: is a bristlecone pine. The oldest single individual that has been recorded is 4,767 years. Very close to your guess of 5,000, Bob.

B: Ah, that why you laughed I knew it.

S: (laugh) 10,000 I doubled it 10,000. So that's the oldest living thing. 10,000 is too long. So that that's why that one is wrong.

B: Okay.

S: But there are bristlecone pine 4,767 years, is the oldest specific individual. There are many examples of them in California and in Japan, in, you know, two, three, 4,000 years old. And the third one was, is this is just you would have to hear it or not and this was a news item. Dinosaur was dinner at least once fossil shows mammals refused to be a victim and ate a satakasaur I think is how you pronounce it. So this is basically like a dog sized mammal that was around at the time of dinosaur eating basically basically like the biggest mammal at the time, or one of them, eating one of the smallest dinosaurs at the time.

P: What impact would this have on Kansas at all, Steve?

S: (laugh) It was the uh, I-I-I don't believe the fossil was discovered in Kansas. It was discovered...

E: China.

S: in China. In China. Other than that I don't... nothing.

P: You don't think it will have any impact on the intelligent design debate?

S: What? Evidence affecting intelligent design theory?

P: Yeah.

S: I doubt it. They're calling this the T-Rex of mammals. Mammoth Robustus. This is the first fossil evidence of any animal of any mammal having having eaten a dinosaur. It's interesting, it-it's a curiosity because the textbook, ya know, canonical story of...

B: Small rodents running around...

S: small rodent living in the shadow of the giant dinosaurs and dinosaurs eating mammals.

B: Way to go mammals.

E: It's all in the Bible.

S: So there you have it. So the, uh, first and the third one were correct and the second one was, uh, incorrect because I doubled the age of the oldest living tree from 5,000 approximately to 10,000.

P: Well, I want to disqualify myself this week based on stupidity.

E: We were, we were perfect this week. So we can move on.

S: K, cause, these are obviously designed to be uh to be very difficult it a test not only of your knowledge of scientific trivia but also just are you keeping up with the latest stories in the news.

E: And it's also an exercise to show people that no matter what people say may sound scientific but it could be far from true.

S: And you know some things that sound fantastical are can be true. Ya know like a 5,000 year old tree, that that's pretty out there.

P: Or birds that stay aloft for 10 years.

S: For ten years at a time right. Like the Sooty Tern from last week's, um, example.

P: There ya go.

S: So I will continue to...

E: I still want to see the 10 year video of that thing but that's another story.

P: It's all good.

S: I'll continue to scour the science news for the most extraordinary stories and this is sorta a fun way to hear about it.

More News Items

Tom Cruise (16:48)

S: Something else, speaking of funny items in the news and I'm sure all of you have heard or seen our friend Tom Cruise in the news in the last couple of weeks.

E: Your friend, Tom Cruise, yes.

S: As you may or may not know Tom Cruise, uh, who is, ya know, a very, very good actor, who is, ya know, box office smash, his movie out right now is War of the Worlds.

E: And as my wife says, "Not bad to look at either."

S: Not bad to look at either. Yeah, I think my wife conquers on that, as well. So, we, again, a brilliant actor, but, who also happens to be a Scientologist. Uh, ya know, Scientology is a 50 year old religion. Um, some people who are not charitable would call it a cult.

P: An actor's mind is a terrible thing to waste.

S: (laugh) Right. Scientology has actually aggressively, ya know, recruited, or prosthelytized to Hollywood stars, because it wants them as it's spokespeople, and, ya know, they've been successful, not only Tom Cruise but...

E: Kirstie Alley.

B: Oh, John Travolta.

S: and and others.

P: A few other assorted kooks.

S: Uh, but the Tom Cruise episode brought out one interesting aspect of Scientology that I dunno how many people are aware of and that's that Scientologists are very anti-psychiatry. They maintain that psychiatry, as Tom Cruise directly, Scientology is a pseu-, I mean that psychiatry is a pseudoscience and they deny essentially the entire modern discipline, modern science of mental health.

P: Tom Cruise said there is no such thing as a chemical imbalance.

S: Right. There is no such thing as a chemical imbalance.

E: The reason that he focuses on that, I believe, is cause the main thrust of all Scientology plays into that whole field so of course they, they feel that they have to, uh, ya know, support their, ya know, their, uh, mind view, if you will...

S: Right.

E: of how the human mind works, and that's why he has such a problem with it cause of, cause of what they believe.

S: Yeah, I mean, basically they're the creationists of mental illness. They-they oppose a specific scientific discipline because their religious faith disagrees with it. So that they, basically, mount a-a very aggressive sophisticated campaign against psychiatry the same way that Creationists mount a campaign against evolution. Uh, but on the surface the Scientologist's views of mental illness are the idea that all of our psychological problems, all of the baggage that we carry with us, is due to, what call engrams. Engrams are basically memories, subconscious memories, of past trauma, even going back to the womb, and that the only way to get rid of your mental illnesses or you psychological problems and is to clear yourself of these bad memories, these engrams and they're, the goal of Scientologists is to become what they call "a clear", basically cleared of engrams. Of course, ya know, as wacky as that may seem, as contradictory to, ya know, modern neurology, that's actually not the real belief's that they have, that's only the surface belief. That the Dianetics, ya know, level ideas that they have. In reality what they belief is that people are being parasitically infested by the spirits of dead space aliens that were exiled to Earth by, uh, an extraterrestrial dictator, which they call Xenu.

P: Oh Xenu. I-I think.

B?: Yeah.

E?: So Steve is it like a possession then? But they don't really see it really like a possession. But it sounds like possession to me.

S: Uhhh... yeah.

B?: Pretty much.

S: It's more of, it's more of a psychic parasite. Ya know, I think, is the, is the way they, so, which of course makes it interesting that, ya know, Tom Cruise, who thinks that alien parasites are sucking off our mental health calls psychiatry a pseudoscience. That is the pot calling the kettle black if ever there were one. But, I mean, it's-it's just ridiculous and it, but interestingly it, the Scientologists do find allies among others who also question the, uh, the basic tenets of psychiatry, that question the concepts of, um, ya know, mental illnesses being due to chemical imbalances in the brain. There is a, actually a psychiatrist who is now pushing 90 the guy's ancient, called Thomas Szasz, who, ya know 40-50 years ago he had some legitimate, ya know, criticisms of the way psychiatry was being practiced, uh, but basically all of his legitimate criticisms have been dealt with over the years and you know psychiatry is definitely a much more, ya know, humane... uh...

P: It's-It's matured. It's matured like all medical science has in the last 50 years.

S: Um, but, ya know, there are, ya know, you did not want to be mentally ill 50 years ago and be institutionalized. I mean...

P: Of course.

S: it was, you really had no rights. But tho-those issues really have been dealt with and led one, ya know, sort of critic of Thomas Szasz to comment that, ya know, that he should just declare victory and move on, I mean, the-the-the battle that he was fighting is over, but, ya know, he, Thomas Szasz and his disciples have taken, ya know, sort of criticism of some these sort of questionable ethics of old school, ya know, psychiatry to the point of saying there's no such thing as mental illness and uh, ya know, I have engaged in, ya know, debates and discussions with, ya know, dozens of people who hold that belief. I don't know if any of them were Scientologists, they might have been, they don't always, ya know, label themselves as such, um, but some certainly were not, they were psychologists or-or therapists or just, ya know, interested laypeople who have bought into this very elaborate belief system that I call psychiatry denial, which is just, or just a denial of mental illness. The silliest thing about it is-is that it really denies the basic fact that the brain is a biological organ, right? It's just like your liver.

P: (laugh)

S: Yeah?

P: It's true.

S: And just like your liver can fail and not function properly and have a, ya know, chemical imbalances and hypo or hyper functioning of different, ya know, aspects of the liver cells the same is true of your brain. I mean the only difference is the brain is a lot more complex which means there could be a lot more subtle imbalances.

P: I can speak from, uh, personal experience when I had some, uh, complications from surgery in 2000 I got delirium and, uh, started, uh, I was not in control of myself. I was in the hospital I thought aliens had kidnapped me and were, uh, whatever, I dunno, trying to do experiments on me, I guess. I pulled my feeding tube out of my nose, violently, swearing at people around me. I mean, I was, my brain was compromised...

S: Your brain was not functioning normally.

P: (laugh) by the, by the illness, and, ya know, I woke up to find, to find myself tied to the bed.

S: Yet there are those who would deny the very obvious and basic conclusion that your brain was not biologically functioning normally because, ya know, you had a fever and, uh, metabolic parameters were out of whack.

P: Right.

S: Uh, they would try to interpret that as, in, ya know, psychological terms, but in psychological terms it's meaningless. Your brain cells were not working. That's what it comes down to, but, ya know, Tom Cruise says there's no such thing as a chemical imbalance. He was very critical of Brooke Shields who had suffered from postpartum depression and took some anti-depressants which she says help-helped her a great deal. He made some comment about well-well all you need is vitamins and exercise, which is again, just, ya know, pulling nonsense...

E?: Yeah, where have we heard that before?

S: out of his butt. Anyway, so, I think a lot of the, some of the press focused a lot on just sort of, ya know, the religious aspects of Scientology or on his sorta extreme views, but, I hadn't I didn't really anyone make the connection between the really bizarre...

B?: Right.

S: beliefs of Scientology and what was motivating...

P: Nobody knows about it...

S: Tom Cruise...

P: that's why, Steve.

S: right, in his, ya know, denial of, ya know, behavioral neuroscience, basically. But again I do-I do think that the parallels between the psychiatry denial of Scientologists and evolution denial of Creationists are-are very real and very interesting they are-they're also, ya know, they're very telling, and one of the advantages of being what we call, we call ourselves, we're full service skeptics, ya know, we really deal all issues across the spectrum. The real advantage to that is that you see the underlying similarities. Ya know, they all use the same logical fallacies over and over again. The same, sort of, errors in thought. The same, ya know, strategies of denial. It doesn't really matter what the-what the-the topic is. Ya know, of course, if you gonna talk intelligently about a specific topic you do need to know the factual details. You know, you can't speak in a vacuum. You know what we call arm chair skepticism, which is just sorta, shooting from the hip, You do have to, sort of, know the-the nitty gritty details, but the-the flaws in logic and the mechanisms of deception that-that people employ are all the same. Whether you're a Scientologist or a Creationists or a-a you believe in ghosts or UFO's or Bigfoot, it doesn't matter.

E?: Wait, wait, what's wrong with Bigfoot?

P: (laugh)

S: (laugh)

P: UFO's sure, but that Bigfoot.

S: It's a great website. It's a very useful website, I like, I enjoy.

B?: Yeah, right?

P: (laugh)

S: Um...

E?: (laugh)

Skeptical Website of the Week (26:51)

S: well, Bob why don't we take this time for you to tell us what the skeptical website of the week is?

B: One of my, one of my favorite skeptical websites is snopes.com. It's not, uh, strictly, it is skeptical it's-it-it's a little off beat in that it, in that it discusses urban legends. I mean...

P: How do you spell that, Bob?

B: Snopes.com or urban legends?

P: Snopes.

S: Give us the url. What is it?

P: Yeah, give us the url.

B: w-w-w dot s-n-o-p-e-s. Snopes.com.

S: Okay.

B: Uh, Time Magazine in 2002 and 2003 listed it as one of the 50 best websites, and, uh, like I said it contains urban legends, uh lots of internet lore, odd news stories, strange facts and misconceptions.

S: It's a great resource. I go there all...

B: It is. It's a great resource. If you read something, uh, if you get an e-mail or someone tells you about some bizarre story, go-go to this site and do a search and, uh, and see if it's a bona fide, uh, false urban legend or if there might be some truth to it, or man he's got, he's got dozens of categories, uh, from science to religion, Coke lore as in Coca-Cola, food, and Disney, all these amazing stories that-that people, a lot of people take for granted...

S: Right.

B: and don't really think about it, uh, but actually are urban legends.

P: Bob, you say he has, is it a one man band?

B: Well this, uh, there is a guy, um, he's actually a contributor to my, to my skeptical e-mail group, and it's just, he just, uh, identifies himself as snopes, but, uh, yeah, it's a guy. I-I-I...

S: Don't know his real name?

B: Uh, ya know, I don't. Let's see. Uh... urban legends by Barbara and David Mikkelson, hmm... I wonder...

S: Well, there ya go.

B: if that's him.

P: (laugh)

B: Uhm... must be.

S: Mystery solved. So give us some examples, give us some examples.

B: Sure. He went to, I went to the science section, of course, and, um, came up with, uh, some here. You guys let me know what you think.

S: So, are all of these fake, or are there some real ones, too?

B: There's, he has categories, true, false, then he's got undetermined or ambiguous veracity...

P: Okay.

B: and then he has another, uh, another one that I actually, I won't I won't cover but he has entries of indeterminate origin, and, uh, I think that actually covers things that are, it's such a vague story that it probably happened to someone somewhere, but it's just, uh, not specific enough to tell you whether, yes, this absolutely happened, but it probably did to somebody at some point. But here's a couple, let's see, consumers need to be cautious that water boiled in a microwave oven can suddenly explode.

P: That sounds ridiculous.

S: Water explode? No, it will boil.

P: (laugh) Yeah, I mean, unless it's in a tightly closed container.

S: Yeah but I doubt the microwave itself is air tight.

E: Sounds dubious.

S: I mean, yeah, don't, you certainly don't want to boil water inside a sealed container, cause once it starts to boil it will explode.

P: Right. Wouldn't want to do that in a microwave or a camp fire.

S: Never heat a closed system.

B: He list's that as true and I don't think it necessarily needs to be, um, a closed a closed box or-or a closed system in any way it's just that, I-I'm not sure, uh, the impression I have is that, uh, is that because, I don't know, after you open it reaches some critical-critical heat that causes it, uh, to just, really explode out of the container.

P: Alright, wait a minute, so his websites, Bob, says true with no explanation?

E: No, there is an explanation.

B: He might, I've got a link here. I could follow it and see but let me uh, alright, let me-let me click it and see what comes up.

P: Yeah, uh, because it to us it sounds, uh, ridiculous.

B: Yeah. Here it is. He's got a, he's got a big, he's got a big page here on, uh, on this. True but rare. That's the status he's got here. True but rare, and I don't wanna waste time reading this, but that's, so that is...

P: Something I'm going to have to read.

E: He gives and example of a story behind it. He describes the origin's of the story. He then sites some articles in which this is mentioned, for instance from New Scientist, from the How Things Work website, and so forth. So, he does some research, puts it all together in one page and, uh, puts it up there for you.

S: But what's exploding?

P: Water exploding?

B: Actually it involves super heating.

S: Okay.

B: Let's see.

P: So that water's over heating?

S: But, super heating involves pressure.

E: I'm hear now and it says, uh, takes near perfect conditions to bring this about thus exploding water is not something the average hot beverage drinker who would otherwise now be eyeing his microwave with trepidation need fear. Odds are you'll go through life without ever viewing this phenomenon first hand and if you're one of the rare few who does get to see it you will likely not be harmed by the experience.

P: So it's a very small explosion.

B: Oh, okay.

P: Doesn't blow the microwave apart.

B: No, no. So, what's happening here is that you've got a, um, you've got water that's actually slightly above the boiling point because of a lack of nucleation sites. Those are, those are sites that gas bubbles form that-that form around...

S: Right.

B: that, uh, that when you boil when you boil water before you throw pasta in the bubbles coming up are created at, uh, nucleation sites...

S: Right.

B: but here's a better example, um. If you look at, if you pour a glass of champagne and you look and you see these bubbles appearing at a certain point on the glass and then, you know, rising through the liquid and getting bigger and-and bigger those are nucleation sites, but, uh, and-and rain, even rain, common rain, needs, uh, these, uh, nucleation sites to start forming around. If we had no impurities in our atmosphere it would be very difficult for-for rain to form. So it-so it involves super heating and then all of a sudden, ya know, since it's hotter than actually 212 Fahrenheit all of a sudden mi-, I dunno, maybe, uh, it finds some nucleation sites and bam it just uh, it just uh...

S: Okay.

B: over boils. So... that's

S: So what-what causes the lack of nucleation sites?

B: Um, certain glasses he's saying here are, um, the glass is very, is very well made or something and that there's not many nucleation sites.

P: Hm.

S: That's interesting.

B: That's enough on this one.

P: That's interesting. It's enough, but it's interesting.

B: Okay...

E: These other ones are great.

B: here's a good one. The number of people alive today is greater than the number of people that have ever died. Now that's a very common one I've heard that over and over and-and-and I believed it.

S: I wanna say that's false. Ya know, right, cause there just has...

B: Right.

S: to have been more than 6 billion people to have ever lived ever.

B: Right and it-and it-and it is false. And uh, here's another great one the Great Wall of China is the only man made object visible from the moon.

E: From the moon?

S: It's not visible from the moon.

P: From the moon?

S: It's visible from orbit.

E: But the moon is, uh...

P: The moon is a little far.

E: quarter million miles away.

S: Yeah, from low earth orbit it's visible. Like if you're in the shuttle you can see it. Isn't that correct?

B: Yeah this is, this is actually, uh, yeah, actually this from the moon is right is ridiculous cause the moon is, the earth is pretty you're standing on the moon. But I've also heard another form of this being that it's the only thing you can see from orbit that's man made and that's, and that's also false.

P: How far is the moon? How far is the earth from the moon?

B: Quarter million, quarter million miles.

S: Yeah, quarter million.

P: 239,000 miles.

B: Two light seconds.

P: I'm sure that fluctuates a little.

B: Hair and fingernails continue to grow after one's death.

S: That is false. That is false.

B: That is false. I-I believe the skin peels away

S: The skin retracts, yeah, from drying.

B: Alright. Men think about sex every seven seconds.

E: True. Oh, darn.

(laughs)

B: That's false. That's a very common one that...

S: How long has this show been?

(laughs)

E: How many thoughts? That's false, huh?

B: And, yes. And one of my favorites, thanks to the Coriolis effect toilets flush clockwise in the northern hemisphere and counter-clockwise in the southern. And that, and that is false as well.

E: We all know that's false.

S: Bob, Bob wrote an article about that for our newsletter.

E: That the Coriolis effect is only measurable in very large bodies of water.

B: And over long...

E: Oceans (laugh)

B: long periods of time.

S: Yeah. It uh, It uh, it affects hurricanes and, ya know, things like that but not your toilet bowl.

B: Right.

S: Right.

B: Yeah. The toilet bowl is just too small and it goes too fast. Basically, the direction that the water spins around when you flush depends on the direction it was going when it entered and the odd shape of the receptacle and things like that.

S: Right, right.

B: And uh...

S: Well here's another water related one that-that I heard. Uh, tell me if, I-I know that Evan knows this one cause we've spoken about it, but if you put hot water in an ice cube tray in the freezer it will freeze quicker than if you put cold water in the ice cube tray to-to freeze it to ice.

B: I've heard that.

P: Is that the same question about boiling water? If it's hot to start with or cold to start with? Okay, I don't know, let's see. The water is, uh, moving faster, right, the molecules, if it's hotter...

S: Right.

E: But it's still, if it's hotter it would take longer to equalize with the, uh, with, with the freezer.

P: That-that-that doesn't seem right.

S: Doesn't seem right and I didn't believe when I first heard I thought that can't be right because hot water has farther to cool down. Ya know...

P: (laugh)

S: it's just thermodynamics. There's nothing, ya know, special about it.

P: Seems very common sensicle.

S: But, it turns out that it's true.

B: What's, what's the physics behind it.

S: Here, here's why. And then this makes total sense. This is like, and, you can see why this might be, have been the origin of this-this old wives tale. The, if you put hot water in the ice cube trays the water will evaporate.

B: Mmm hmmm mmm mmm

S: You end up with smaller ice cubes. If you put cold water in the cube, the entire cube may take longer to freeze down to the middle but you end up with larger ice cubes.

E: Mmhmmm. Okay.

S: So you can't make more ice faster by putting...

E: Right

S: in hot water. You actually end up with less ice which dramatically reduces the-the volume to surface area and makes it freeze much quicker.

P: Obviously there's less water okay.

S: Yeah, there's less water.

P: That makes sense.

S: That's the reason. So the thermodynamics have not been violated in our freezers,...

P: (laugh)

S: but you have to account for evaporation.

P: Okay.

S: Well that-that's a great website. Again if you get a e-mail from your friend saying, "Oh, did you ever hear about this, ya know, kid who needs money for an operation" ya know, all of these things, these chain letters. If, ya know, look on that site, and there other sites that are similar, but, uhm, this is a-this is an excellent one. It'll take you about 5 minutes to figure out that that e-mail is probably bogus, and, ya know, not just with speculation but often with real links to reliable information. So before you pass on that chain letter or that, ya know, seemingly amazing fact or story that you received in e-mail use the internet for a little bit of research. Often that's what I do and then I just reply and say, "Well, here's a link to snopes.com which, ya know, exposes this story to be bogus."

E-mail Scams ()

S: Ya know, and speaking of...

P: E-mails.

S: scam e-mails. There are, bogus e-mails are used to spread a lot a lot more than just, uh, benign urban legends. Uh, they're often used by dedicated con artists. Now there-there have always been con artists but they have found a very fertile ground on the internet and e-mail. Uh, and it's, ya know, unfortunately responsible for a great deal of spam. They don't have to have a very sig-, ya know, high percentage of hit rates. You can send out, ya know, spam e-mails basically for free to thousands of thousands of people...

P: Millions.

S: yeah, you only have to hit one gullible person in thousands, ya know, to make it pay off. In fact, in Connecticut, the, uh, attorney general recently sent out a warning about a specific, uh, new scam. This one, this is attorney general Richard Blumenthal, of Connecticut, warned of a job offer, a bogus job offer, which...

E: That-that's different.

S: That's a new angle there. They always find new angles. Uh, this one, the job is an escrow agent. Ya know, escrow is when money is put aside to pay taxes or whatever and what the job entails is that, uh, money will be placed into your private bank account in escrow and then you pass the money onto some other company or per-, or whatever, and you keep a percentage of it for yourself and that's your fee. So it sounds like an easy way to sorta make money on the side, uh, to supplement your income. But, of course, they just all they're-all they're looking for is you're bank account number, ya know, and then once they get that they'll-they'll drain it of whatever's in there. Plus they also get other personal information then you could be in for...

P: You could suffer the horrors of identity theft.

S: Total identity theft where that can take years to work your way out of that nightmare.

P: Ah yeah.

B: I can't, I can't imagine, I mean after so much media and so much news attention to these scams people are giving personal information to strangers that-that's ultimately what it is.

S: Right.

B: I mean, I, I mean I might be other end of the spectrum. I might be a little more paranoid than I-than I need be, I mean I'm-I'm getting these popups on my Dell computer that uh, that seem, ya know, that-that seem pretty legitimate to me but they're asking me, ya know, go to this website and-and-and do this and I'm skeptical even of-of those things.

S: Yeah, I don't

B: Probably, okay, but I don't like anything popping up telling me to do something even if it's apparently for my, say my McAfee Security System that's asking me to do it, um, and everything looks legitimate and it's not a normal popup. It looks like a Dell type of popup, I'm still, I still don't want to do it because I don't, I don't wanna be prompted by anything to go on the net, on the internet, and give away information about myself.

S: I agree with you. I don't think you're being too paranoid at all.

P: I agree.

S: You basically, the-the if you want to be safe, you shouldn't click on any links, you should always type in the name of the address. If someone sends you an unsolicited link never click on it. There's...

B: Right.

S: one little key though. You can-you can put your mouse over the link...

B: Right. Mmhmm

S: and then in the lower left hand corner of your web browser it will show the name the website that you're going to go to and...

B: Right.

S: if that name doesn't match the name of the link that you're clicking on that is...

B: Red flag.

S: That's a red flag that you're probably going...

P: It's not fool proof but it's a red flag.

S: You're right. It's not fool proof it's a red flag.

B: It's pretty good but also don't forget, Steve, they don't-they don't just say go to this, ya now, http, ya know, backsla-, ya know, slash slash, and then give you the url. Usually they'll say go to this link and the words go to this link are-are-are the hyperlink. And you go over that now what you do is, just-just today I got a-an e-mail apparently from eBay saying that there's been some unusual activity in my account. Please go to this link and fix it.

S: That's always, that's, by the way, that's always a scam.

B: I highlighted... well, yeah, here and here's a few ways you can tell.I mean I highlighted the hyperlink and the link, the domain had nothing to do with, uh, with eBay, and also...

S: Or goes to just numbers. You just get, you just get the number url.

B: Right, just get the IP or something. But also it says dear eBay member. I mean, they would-they would-they would never do that. They would say dear and then your-your name.

S: Robert Novella, right.

B: Right, they would-they would use your name.

S: Dear <your name here>.

E: (laugh)

B: And those, those are the two biggest I mean.

P: And they also, ya know, nowadays they-they make websites look like legitimate websites.

S: It could look exactly, they can exactly duplicate a legitimate website.

P: Exactly. And-and that's another it's just it's horr-. And also it's not just scams and identity theft, uh, it's also a way that they send out digital disease. So, that's are viruses are spread.

S: Hey I read about one that scared me. They-they can put it's kinda like a trojan horse where they, you get a virus and what the-the virus sits on your system and it the next time you type the url to go to certain popular websites like eBay it redirects you to a fake eBay site, so...

B: Woooowww.

S: imagine that. So you're just- you're-you're just you're not clicking a link, you're not responding to anything, you're just I'm gonna go to eBay you click on e-, you type in the eBay address and this-this virus redirects you to a fake site and then you start, and then it starts recording your keystrokes and...

B: That's insidious.

S: taking your codes. Very insidi... that's why you have to have virus software running. You have to...

B: Absolutely.

S: ya know, don't visit, ya know, dubious websites, or websites that don't seem legitimate. And, ya know, you probably got the virus in the first place because you clicked a link you shouldn't have clicked.

P, B: Right.

B: But, Steve, but the url itself is subtly erroneous, right? I mean-I mean it might be eBays, with an 's', dot com.

S: No, no no, Bob you're typing in the real e-, the real, uh, url that you know of.

B: Yeah, but where are they redirecting you to?

S: It-it-it's hijacking your browser.

P: Right.

S: It's hijacking.

P: And it takes you to a fake page that looks like eBay.

S: Right.

B: And the url is correct, it looks correct, I mean.

S: It looks correct, yes, right.

B: Wow.

S: It's all behind the scenes in the programming it's getting redirected. It's nothing that you can see.

E?: That's clever.

S: Yeah, very clever. I mean this threatens internet commerce.

P: Oh, yeah.

S: If you can't be sure, if you can't be trusted that your credit card number is going to be secure, and, ya know, there have been examples of companies getting hijacked...

P: Sure.

S: and hacked and their, ya know, thousands and thousands of credit card numbers get stolen, but ya know, this is, this could really hamper commerce, cost the economy billions and billions of dollars. Um, but you ask, Bob, who in this day and age would be dumb enough to give away personal information and really it-it-it does highlight the fact that the only defense against this is education, that people just have to realize, ya know, what safe internet use is that that and the bottom line is no matter what the story, never ever give away any personal information no piece of your social security number. Here's one thing, a lot of people don't realize that the first part of your social security number, people can figure that out by when and where you were born.

E: That's right. The state you were born in and...

S: and the year that you...

E: and the year, yeah.

S: and if-if you, if they can figure that out about you which is probably information which is public knowledge, um, and you give them just the last few digits, the last four digits of your social security number they may be able to get the whole thing. So that seems innocuous.

P: Right.

S: Um, but just, the bottom line is doesn't matter what they say on the phone, what they say in e-mail, how you, what-whatever the offer is, just, it's a scam. That's the bottom line. It's a scam. Don't click it. Don't go there. Don't buy it.

P: Your skeptical toolkit has got to be in order.

S: But, the, unfortunately the biggest victims of this are the elderly.

E: Oh, sure.

S: Yeah, it's, ya know, our mom's and dad's especially, ya know, people who are, ya know, they're just get they're-they're-they're, because of just normal aging or maybe they're starting to have some, ya know, neurological problems, they're just, they're judgement's not quite there, but they're still at the point where they're living independently, ya know, maybe they're children or their family knows that they're not as sharp as they used to be but, or maybe they are sharp but they're just not computer savvy and, ya know, how many of us have set our parents up with e-mail and stuff so we can e-mail them pictures of their grand kids and then they're gonna get these spam letters too, ya know, these fake e-mails, so it's really the-the elderly who are either, ya know, unfortunately, ya know, having some early memory or judgement problems or people who are really just not computer savvy, those are the victims, and they're often times the people who can least afford it. It's just dastardly. I mean con artists like that really are very infuriating. You have to really just be evil to do that.

P: Insidious.

References