SGU Episode 412

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SGU Episode 412
8th June 2013
(brief caption for the episode icon)
SGU 411                      SGU 413
Skeptical Rogues
S: Steven Novella
B: Bob Novella
R: Rebecca Watson
J: Jay Novella
E: Evan Bernstein
Guest
JB: Joshie Berger
Quote of the Week
It takes a fearless, unflinching love and deep humility to accept the universe as it is. The most effective way he knew to accomplish that, the most powerful tool at his disposal, was the scientific method, which over time winnows out deception. It can't give you absolute truth because science is a permanent revolution, always subject to revision, but it can give you successive approximations of reality.
Ann Druyan
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Show Notes
Forum Discussion

Introduction

You're listening to the Skeptics' Guide to the Universe, your escape to reality.

S: Hello and welcome to the Skeptics' Guide to the Universe. Today is Wednesday, June 5th 2013, and this is your host, Steven Novella. Joining me this week are Bob Novella...

B: Hey, everybody.

S: Rebecca Watson...

R: Hello, everyone.

S: Jay Novella...

J: Yo!

S: And Evan Bernstein.

E: Good evening, my friends.

S: (deep voice) Good evening.

J: Hey, Ev.

This Day in Skepticism (0:28)

• June 8 1959: The USPS tries "missile mail" for the first and last time using a Regulus Cruise Missile from a submarine outside Newport, Virgina to a Naval Station in Mayport, Florida.

R: Hey, happy firing mail using a missile... with the nuclear warhead removed day.

J: What? That's not a holiday!

R: It's... you know, I'm petitioning the President to make it official. But, on June 8th, 1959 the USPS, the United States Postal Service, or what would eventually become the United States Postal Service, tried missile mail for the first and last time using a cruise missile from a submarine parked just outside Newport, Virgina. And they aimed the missile at a Naval Station in Mayport, Florida, and successfully shot a load of mail there and it was considered very exciting at the time. The post office really thought that this was the future of mail delivery... is—

S: It was the future of phallic innuendo is what it was.

(chuckling)

S: You got a submarine, a missile, mail, shooting our load... I mean, come on.

R: You didn't need to go—

J: (laughing) Oh, my God. That's awesome, Steve!

R: —with the last one.

J: But Rebecca, did they put real mail in there or just test paper?

R: Yeah, they set up a post office on the USS Barbero, the submarine, and they sent a bunch of mail there, which was all, like, commemorative postal covers, addressed to Dwight Eisenhower, who was President at the time.

E: Thank goodness it wasn't junk mail.

R: (laughs) Yeah, it was mostly grocery store fliers and used car dealerships, things like that.

J: So how'd they catch the missile; did it come down with a parachute or something?

R: Yeah, yeah, they just put a parachute on it, but... I don't know; I had never heard of this before and it made me laugh, because what did they try first, like a tank? Like we're just gonna... (laughs) Let's shove all the mail—

J: That's only town-to-town. That's local mail.

R: Right. Let's deliver this mail over in the post office to your house using this bazooka. We'll just stuff the mail inside (laughs) and fire the bazooka across town at your house. It didn't have legs.

S: But this is like one of the classic historical comments that, in retrospect, was a hundred percent wrong. The Postmaster General at the time, Arthur Summerfield, said, "this peace-time employment of a guided missile for the important and practical purpose of carrying mail is the first known official use of missile by any Post Office Department of any nation" and then he goes on to say, "this is an event of historic significance to the peoples of the entire world". He predicted that "before man reaches the moon, mail to be delivered within hours from New York to California, to Britain, to India, or Australia by guided missile. We stand on the threshold of rocket mail".

R: Yeah, and that's what we're using all of our muscles for today, as you know. Look out, Russia, here comes some mail from the United States. Don't worry.

E: But isn't this idea 500 years old? I mean, I remember seeing in a movie once about that time period where they would attach messages to arrows and loose the arrows across the fields and deliver messages back and forth.

S: Message for you, sir!

(laughter)

E: Exactly!

R: That's a good point.

J: Wait, now, why did it fail, though, I mean, if they did—

S: It's not cost-effective. That's it.

J: Yeah, but Steve, what I'm saying is you don't have to launch a missile to actually figure out that it's not cost-effective. Like, a guy in a room with a pencil can figure that out.

R: Well, I don't know... according to the Wikipedia page on it, the Department of Defense saw the measure more as a demonstration of U.S. missile capabilities, so—

E: And postal capabilities.

R: This peace-time employment of a guided missile was more just preparation for war-time deployment.

S: They were just flexing their muscles?

R: Of a guided missile. Yeah.

E: (laughing) You just picture being on the receiving end of that and all of a sudden it's (whistling)

R: Right.

E: Mail's coming!

S: Yeah. And when that didn't work, that didn't intimidate the Russkies, they said, "what do we gotta do, send a missile to the moon?"

R: Right.

S: And hence, the space program was born.

R: Apparently the Russians also tried launching mail from nuclear submarines, but that doesn't appear to be in operation anymore, either.

E: Yeah. They just text now.

S: (laughs) Yeah, right.

News Items

Star Trek Review (4:48)

• http://www.startrekmovie.com/

S: So this week we are going to do another movie review. We all watched the movie Star Trek Into Darkness. Now we gave it a few weeks. We figure most fans by now probably have seen it. If you haven't, there are spoilers aplenty coming, so you might want to fast-forward to the end of this segment. So, I know you guys all watched the movie; what did you think?

R: OK, if it hadn't have been—I enjoyed it, but I enjoyed it as a brain vacation and if it hadn't have been a Star Trek movie, I would have enjoyed it more. But because it was Star Trek movie, like after the initial "like that was fun", I just got really angry when I thought of all of the stupid things that didn't work.

S: Yeah. That was my exact reaction. It was fun at the time and I enjoyed the experience of watching it. I just like those characters. I just like seeing those characters interact, but it is one of those movies where the more you think about it, the more stupid and annoying it is.

R: There was like one thing that popped out at me immediately while I was watching and took me a while for me to, like, get over it and once again get into brain vacation mode, and that was the very beginning—okay, so a volcano is blowing up and they're going to stop it from exploding and how are they going to stop it? Using something they call a "cold fusion bomb". And what annoyed me wasn't the idea that cold fusion is suddenly a real thing, but the fact that they only named it that because what this bomb does is magically freeze all of the lava. So somebody writing this script was like, "Okay, so we have this bomb and it makes things really cold. What should we call it?" "Oh, well, let's call it 'cold fusion bomb', because cold." Like, no! That's not what cold fusion even means. Shut up.

(laughing)

J: Right from the beginning, they don't get the idea that they need to talk to someone that gets science. It's a common theme in science fiction. You know, in the '50s, people can get away with anything, but today, the audiences are too savvy and we're going to pick up stuff like that.

S: And did you pick up the name of the planet?

E: Nibiru.

B: Yeah, Nibiru.

S: Nibiru!

B: Yeah. Totally.

E: Speaking of the first thing in the movie, that's—I mean, you slap you head right at that point, I think. Are you serious?

R: Wait, what's Nibiru?

S: Nibiru is the mythical—

E: Planet X.

S: —Planet X that's going to destroy the Earth.

B: Hey guys, was it your sense that it was frozen? My sense was that it was just some sort of wicked chemical reaction that didn't... that didn't... that froze it, but not a cold-temperature freezing, just made it stiff; made it solid.

J: Yeah, looked like cold to me, Bob.

B: Really?

J: Yeah.

R: Well, I mean, it froze.

S: It was a massively endothermic reaction.

E: The visual effect of something suddenly freezing, like Frozone in The Incredibles.

J: I understand I'm watching a movie; I understand they have to create conflict and danger in all this stuff, but the point is, a good movie—you can't do things that are stupid. Like, you don't need to actually send Spock down into the volcano.

R: Yeah!

J: And if you're going to do it, you have to make me believe that there's a really good reason why you need to send such an important person down into the heart of a volcano. It's like, send a robot!

R: Yeah, send an intern!

B: Or, send a redshirt. Yeah. Send a redshirt.

E: Plenty of redshirts.

R: OK, and then... then the Enterprise... OK, this one also made me slap my head at the time. The Enterprise lifts out of the water. Like, instead of orbiting the planet and sending a shuttle down into the atmosphere like they do every other time in every situation, they decide to bring the Enterprise into the atmosphere and hide it under the ocean. Like, this is a ship that's built to be in outer space, not to get in and out of the gravity of atmospheres. And their problem with gravity and with the Enterprise in gravity was a major problem for, like, the rest of the film.

E: Well, that's the end of the film.

R: Yeah. Yeah.

J: I totally agree. It was for the script; I mean, they wanted those guys to jump off a cliff and go into the water. Like, why couldn't it just be hovering a mile down the road from where those people lived, or 2 miles. You know, it's a shuttlecraft. The shuttlecraft goes from outer space all the way down to the surface of a planet; why can't the shuttlecraft fly 10 miles to the Enterprise in the atmosphere. Or like you said, orbiting.

B: Guys, you know they were all sitting in a meeting, and somebody was thinking, "I want to see the Enterprise rise out of the water."

E: Yes.

B: You know, "let's do that. What can we do to make that happen?" That's what that happened. That's exactly why.

E: It added to the religiousness of that particular scene. You know, in which natives are now praising the Enterprise as a god when something rises out of the ocean—

B: That's true.

E: —and it was definitely meant to enhance that—

S: So, what all this is getting to—there's a couple ways to criticize the movie. One is for the scientific inaccuracies, which we're going to go over all of those, but also just the writing was lazy and contrived. They took really the lazy path to create the situation that they wanted to get to. They needed a situation where Spock was in peril, where Kirk had to save him by violating the Prime Directive. That was a necessary plot element, and they just did it in the laziest way. But what's annoying about that is that there is no thoughtful use of technology. No one is thinking about what the technology would be like in this year, given their portrayal of technology otherwise. So, they have a transporter; they're not making any use of robots anywhere in the movie. You know, like, there's absolutely no reason why they couldn't beam a bomb down into the volcano and the bomb would detonate itself. Really? 300 years from now, they need a guy to manually, in the volcano, get there first, place the bomb—

R: And he's the smartest guy they have.

E: In a magic volcano suit.

S: And then rig it. Yeah. The scientific problem with that is—yeah, we mentioned the cold fusion thing. That's not going to solve the problem! The pressure's just going to build up until it massively explodes.

R: Yeah.

S: You know, that's actually the opposite of what you should do. If you want—you want the volcano to ooze out over time; you don't want to build up pressure and then explode. They just corked a bottle and then shook it up. You know? It's not going to—

E: "We saved the fleet. Let's go." Meanwhile, boooom!

S: (laughing) Yeah, I know. "Let's go."

J: Steve, are you saying Spock doesn't know what he's doing?

R: At the end of the movie, I was like, you know, it was fun but it really just made me want to go back and watch Wrath of Khan, which was, like, a million times better than that movie.

J: Yeah.

R: You know?

B: Eh, a million?

R: And I think that was because—yeah! I think so.

S: It was the best classic Trek movie.

R: Actually, I haven't seen it lately but it is on Netflix, so I'm going to be watching it soon.

S: But, but...

E: It's good.

S: Benedict Cumberbatch was a thousand times better than Ricardo Montalban.

R: I don't know; Ricardo Montalban is definitely dramatic.

S: Yeah.

R: To say the least. But, I think it works. Like, especially like Ricardo Montalban as an actor, the way he looks and the way he acts is more in line with the, like, Khan's backstory—the whole Eugenics Wars stuff, which they didn't even go into with Benedict Cumberbatch.

J: Yeah, that was weird.

R: Which is a shame, because that's what I think makes Wrath of Khan so much better is because that's actually doing what science fiction does best, which is examining something, like, some serious societal ill, some serious issues and problems that people are struggling with today but putting it in a different context so that we can examine it from a different perspective.

S: On that score this movie definitely tried to do. This movie was an allegory for post-9/11 angst and overreach on the part of the government—you know, militarization, etc.—and I liked the fact—because that is very Gene Rodenberry, trying to use Star Trek as a vehicle for commentary on today's society, using some kind of future allegory. But I just don't think they did a good job with that. You had the Peter Weller character, who turned out to—you know, the admiral—

E: Murphy.

B: Marcus.

S: —who turned out to be the ultimate bad guy—what the hell with his motivation? I was annoyed at that during the movie, where... so, he... so, the admiral, after Vulcan was blown up, he was concerned the Federation was being threatened by the Romulans, by the Klingons, and by threats unknown out there in the galaxy—hint, hint, like the Borg—he's absolutely 100% correct in that they did—the Federation did lose one of their premier planets, Vulcan, so he decides he's going to build a Dreadnought, a warship class of starship to defend the Federation. That's perfectly reasonable. That doesn't make him the bad guy. But somehow they had to tie that with him being a warmonger and trying to manufacturer a war with Klingon and that motivation was never made it clear. It just made him into a cardboard villain and it just didn't make... I was scratching my head; it's like, "yeah but they don't recognize that they're being threatened by hostile enemies and that the dreadnought was..." It was looked on like a sinister thing. No! You need warships.

R: I 100% agree with you, but that is... while the volcano sequence I could not overlook, that is what I could, like, happily just accept in the moment and be like, "oh man, I cannot wait for that dude to get killed." (laughs) I was perfectly happy to accept that.

S: Oh sure, emotionally, I agree.

B: Plus, I love that ship. I wanted to see more of that Dreadnought.

E: When that ship came out of warp and popped in like that, that was wonderful I loved that.

B: Did you guys see the Dreadnought on Marcus's desk earlier on?

J: Yeah.

B: Yeah, I was like, "what the"—

E: No, I didn't notice it.

R: Yeah, I missed that, too.

J: So when you're watching a movie, any movie, and you have this disconnect with the character where you don't get the character or you don't care, right? You ever watch a movie and you just can't connect to. You don't care.

E: Or a TV show or whatever.

J: That comes from a very specific, and it comes from the fact that the zero dimension of a character, right? So if you watch a porno, as an example, you could—if the actors blew up and died on the set, you wouldn't care. Because there's no worse writing than in a porno.

S: You would know, Jay.

J: No, but I'm using it as a really good example, if you think about it.

S: Just an example at hand.

E: Just happened to be clicking around, and...

J: The point is...

R: Talk about a horn kill.

J: ...the character of the admiral—I really didn't care about him at all. He didn't have a legitimate motivation; he was a zero—a uni-dimensional character; he just was warmonger and he was totally blind. You know, all they had to do is justify his fears somewhere. They could have mentioned that, you know, his family was killed by aliens or something. Give him some teeth in the game. Give him something... give us something as his audience to hang our hat on.

R: And that's part of what I think makes Wrath of Khan in many ways better, is because Khan has motivation. You know what he's all about and you're right, in this one, it's like, why is this guy so evil and why is he like magic?

B: I don't think it's necessarily fair to compare it with Wrath of Khan; this was more of a reboot of Space Seed.

R: No, come on.

B: I mean, it was the introduction of Khan. It wasn't decades later, at the end of their careers.

R: No, come on. Like, all of the quote-unquote "nods" they gave included many for Wrath of Khan. Like, they totally deserve being compared to Wrath of Khan. I think.

B: No, I agree.

R: At least in terms of storyline.

B: Yeah, but Space Seed as well, also, is in there. Absolutely.

S: cool if at the end Concorde away with the Dred Scott and his crew and just yet that would have been a better have that open thread: out there's a thought of what year what did after after everything that's what the Chiefs play let it shine loose on the universe with the dreads yeah I know you're more time to go to an Aries is

B: too scary message with a code come back within 5 years please make sure a mansion another another huge us I install a whole which liquid to

R: skip to the end and also buy a GPS that was a movie like okay so condoms blood cures dash okay so now they have him and like 70 s like come on Kirk was dead for several 20 minutes of the boys in 18 and it is so you're basically talking at the end of the most definitely Caucasus somebody uh I don't know getting close okay you can't you just bring them back but I feel for diseases and for true radiation poisoning browning yes yes

S: writing them cells into a corner with technology rice in this movie you trying to tell me that 300 years ago which is like now talking about that we have the technology to to to create stem cells that can essentially make somebody immortal released sure any injury did not feed me still H to death but did you know if you can bring somebody back from radiation poisoning deaths that's pretty damn good at repairing a lot of the cells in the body and by 10 to 300 years later we still get to be at that tech has been replicated?

E: a 200-year-old or something

S: whenever any white guy wouldn't believe imagine we're going to be in a couple hundred years that where the tech is going to be at the I didn't account for with the technology should be an even if you just following the paradigm of Star Trek it with a kind of technology Star Trek has a create plot problems for themselves with the technology and rather than thinking of clever ways to dial it back or to the transport is the big one day you could always just rinse for dinner transferred out or just use the transporter to solve that problem rather than making the transporter I'm in a really building a case for white finicky and cannot be used except for ideal circumstances they have Scotty in the last movie develop transwarp transporter technology. You can be across solar system no need for a Starfleet that that's yeah I mean on the assigned episode of screen at the beginning of the Kronos in to get into the Klingon homeworld the portable device okay you mean we can have an army with portable Sperzel transformers materialized any planet we want in our sector including enemy planets like we instantly put in army wherever you want to go

B: through sometimes gigaton nukes don't

E: Fusion devices

S: implications have an immediate Lee why Bill White your price:

R: to pick him up like just teleport in army there teleporting out immediately everyday that

J: They're getting themselves to a point where it's kinda like the Simpsons were at the end of that episode it says if the episode it never taken place right so are you telling me that because it connects your dad for everyone everywhere without yeah I don't like he's got it

B: he wouldn't be obsessed with that even imagine how frustrated he would be into ribbon to it to get it back because of my god this is like to

S: know what the big farm is going to surprise you

R: got that magic tribble incubating the blood and and also as human send in research come on

E: the rattle me

J: bones Oh what are you doing with your people lie down what are you doing with that just doing a million checked it was good

J: I got the next one this is the big ones at the movie we have a significantly damaged enterprise and don't even get me started about the damaged enterprise plot again bored bored of it easy to get a prize kick ass just one movies just wants to get your battle and be awesome and have to do something really cool one I'm right there with you didn't Rosa haha zebra

S: to be virtually destroys early on in every movie Hanna the movie

J: and they come out of warp in there by the moon by the planet Earth right our planet homeworld words start with

S: the fact that they're working from Kronos earth stick it dragged out of work within the orbit of the Moon that's awesome fun shooting tex

J: come out of the woodwork that close to the earth airplane

R: exactly what he wanted to write a

J: check this out hehehe known Starfleet vessel appears out of nowhere super close to the earth and a completely unknown but strangely Starfleet-like up your ship shows up and there are no other ships anywhere around the moon the earth anything where's the hundreds of thousands stations that would be coming in and out of the planet's atmosphere where's the space station yeah I know the earth is big but there would be all over the place guys think about it

S: to be a massive infrastructure and if the ships are firing on each other and then start descending into the atmosphere

R: yeah where to shoot down rescue

J: guy at some station somewhere going hey you should just came out of work near the moon what's this black ship we don't know what that is all look the enterprise is damaged and here's the distress beacon that would automatically happened your damaged yeah come on me just like her like a ghost planet alright

S: but Here's the address sign staying there so the engine shutdown on the enterprise which is apparently in orbit around the Earth and it's immediately begins to fall

B: yes way too fast I come I did what I had time to read it to K would not oh my gosh why would a photo there in a very high work it meen continue to orbit for energy you run out again like I don't years with the day we have to have been on a trajectory that was going right into the atmosphere yes and it had to have been harboring you know I think they were doing I think you're ever in an order it but they were directly pretty high above the earth you know what you even said it would take longer to fall state do there wasn't any jets or anything like physically supporting the enterprise 2502 in orbit why would they be hovering in such a way that as soon as the power goes out the plumbing to the earth makes absolutely no sense

R: can we us enough moon screen backup her second just been something I just didn't understand when I saw it I thought maybe you guys just writing an offer on Kronos yes yes it happened there that looks like it would be impossible idk it I can

S: become a cliche of science fiction movie I need to have a broken apart moon hovering in the sky it looks cool but it is impossible to do with Rico less almost immediately

B: probably just happened it just happen it happen to get there when they put up the moon like 3 hours previously said that that doesn't think read my email thank you cool it was it looks like what the hell is your name

S: do with a duplicate of the end of the traffic on the rules of Kirk and Spock I like it has to go into the radiation chamber to to fix the engine and save Shippuden ending in spot has to go there and watch you die yeah I like that I like the idea of the reversal I do like the idea of a curse to solve this problem by kicking the pizza sensitive to light stupid things

E: like taking a hammer to tell a dirty joke

R: like the Fonzie of stars

S: I have to say I loved your trail of the engine room because for the first time in any TV or movie of Star Trek the engine room actually looks like a power plant I could power start yes it was gas is it was gorgeous but others just wants a burpee Christmas or whatever and is very sensitive alignment and its whatever radiation I think all the time to you can't go in there just have no robots in there

R: are no leaks suits just like right there outside the room as you would in any nuclear power plant is

S: no way to fix anything in the chamber keep sending somebody to their death Yeah right now kik no one else around

R: work drive repair bed is the absolute worst job search don't

S: get it was contrived you know even give us something give us a signal widget its dumb and come up with some reason for cats to do it because of whatever you know if it was just lazy writing I cream and a beat it worth it uh

B: that was a movie scene with Kirk and Spock and Spike losing it always like it. I can't control my emotions out here in actually crying I mean that with that was a movie scene for me god I hate

E: to have to scream come to this and

R: I think I think it was only I found emotional in the moment but I think it's only because I already identified his character should have to treat it right. Did you just going based on this movie and the previous JJ Abrams movie there's no cause the new character development am at you in those characters that sells or in a relationship justify that kind of emotional connection

S: yeah you're staying on the franchise about it this is before the five-year mission Spock and Kirk don't really know each other that well yeah one mission together

R: so kind of hate each other

J: Abram's didn't even have the balls to keep her until the next movie later what's going to happen it was never the one that radiation Pilgrim I thought a way to die all the blood

J: what I saw what I saw a guy in the original movie like I was sitting there like everybody else in the theater completely crying I was really really crying this character that I loved it he died and I wasn't sure if he was going to survive yeah we didn't know if I was going to say that does that it's been told her off in the family Jay said she said I've known him my whole life without me how would we do like 15 or 16 great line that my parents

R: but we have to go back so before the scene it happens we have to talk about the gravity situation. Like the enterprise is falling to earth running running bowling station this is another thing where in the moment we do you like it I like I'd like to make a conscious effort to stop my brain from thinking about it too much to get angry at to get the Enterprise is coming in to earth and running to get to do the work drive and a every few seconds to date gravity like a ship spins or something and suddenly the ghetto is running on the ceiling yeah I like sideways. that's not how gravity works when is ship is probably thinking free yeah I

S: should have been in 20 G I don't require video free fall

R: looks like it is should look like the Vomit Comet should be you a bunch of dummies like floating in mid-air we could still be cool

S: 0g challenge instead of the rolling gravity channel and it was ridiculous was good just starting to feel better and I see I think

R: I think the reason why they didn't do it because the challenges of that free fall what is mirrored the challenges that s*** up Khan and Kirk faced when they were trying to jump from ship to ship it I actually thought was quite good at the time I thought that was like today in a fire themselves out of the enterprise at the dealership or not did not and there's all this space tree and see that and I was really impressed because that took into account the physics and the challenge it wasn't just a simple thing of them jumping over and talking s*** they had to reach this specific artists ok if its in running for this room in the Enterprise free fallin would be a very similar challenge where they have to use physics you know and planning in order to reach their goal.

S: but that space baby to your artificial gravity kicks out and you in free fall that's figured I should be a recurring problem no problem yeah and

R: she just did a possible explanation for this that I don't know if I can place it I'll have to re watch it to see if I can accept but with what they were suggesting that the of gravity drivers whatever whatever normally keep them wasn't just off but was malfunctioning and so it wasn't the ship slipping into and that was making the change directions but it was the malfunction of your gravity truck

B: I was thinking of that

S: that's semi plausible division explain that out because are driving to grab these malfunction I'm not sure to get it

B: I would help us out did as gravity plating so that the gravity would always be where you're walking and couldn't and wouldn't exist in the walls in awhile You know why would you put a great I thought about that anyway so it doesn't

S: really hard to make that makes sense of humor really stretching yeah it over to get too tired black close to that state space ships in science fiction your designs too much to look like sea ships are standing on the deck in fact you should your head should be in the direction of acceleration not but you shouldn't be facing in the direction of acceleration is absolutely no sense in a station you can get away with it if you have artificial gravity even necessary

B: this was a Star Trek action movie and I enjoyed it thoroughly enjoyed it yeah afterwards when I was thinking about it would just talking about it um yeah it's born increasingly annoying and ugly things you guys mentioned I didn't think about you yes I did through your way it operates but now that I think about it one thing that really kind of upset that I missed the whole iconic Star Trek to wonder in the of discovery that we had in all the series. the old crew from the classic series sitting around the table and discussing the key issues with the situation that they were in how many times I just do that you're dead that's not there to talk about what I really love you that text was not there and for me that's really the heart to heart rate and the show growing up free instrumental no. for you for us guys getting the signs in science fiction it was really was really keep looking so much that you did exactly just happened to

S: Celebrate Recovery intellectualism intelligent in science right

J: in any rights and everything else going to see through

S: being smart and saw your brains not nice speeding up with that guy

R: and that's what that was my point about Kirk in being a characterization Lake the am the legend of Kirk today is a music this womanizing frat boy but and you know I watch the movies in the original series when I was little kid my dad is a big fan and I remembered Kirk and speed really smart and thoughtful and compassionate and those traits to not come through in the a did

B: they differ the show him as being a break I mean he has insight that other people are you saving apps yet he's better not intelligent and not diligent in anyway

E: he's got tools he's not refined yet his cleverness my man should be coming for that car place by the rules

R: everything very easily in the end he doesn't fight or work for anything really

S: he was still a good movie but it was in epic and it didn't most disappointing thing about it is going with me yeah trick because you're rich history with a wonderful characters the receipt you know there is so much background there is no excuse for not making an awesome movie and they didn't make it

J: I would prefer they take these actors and everything just make TV shows

S: I was thinking that if you are five year mission J did this should be a perfect opportunity for sci-fi HBO somebody to pick it up and just do you know what 13 episode season of one hour episodes perfect setup for that

R: they don't have the money that is

J: I like the feel of Star Trek more the TV show anyway I like I like the slower feel like when you can get into more detail you don't like everything was rushed it was enough time I was saying to explore in the dialog it just didn't feel right

E: The movie felt a little long to over just over two hours I think it felt a little longer not

R: exactly my problems at the first one and I comforted myself by saying you know what the next one is going to the middle of the series which is traditionally like the darker more brooding and thoughtful you know in a movie in a trilogy sorry I really want to go then yeah yeah yeah live your mission now its all good

E: the second movie Rebecca this is movie 1a yeah

R: I think you're right I think it was the clone guys don't be don't forget that done very poor

B: JJ Abrams quote he said I never like Star Trek 2 really I say that the tire sin sin sin

Kepler Broken (37:59)

Well we're actually only do one news items this week because I have a you're going to tell us about the Kepler telescope

J: Kepler telescope you were talking about it because it's broken broken space broken

J: space in time to two dimensions broke up with her stew

J: launched in March 2009 and it was a three to five years mission and its prime mission was to determine how common is like planets are throughout the galaxy it's a great job in a fantastic job by the way other 2710 potential exoplanets to date that it sounded more being beaten up analyze right now because I got a lot more data send has been already analyzed so they're still going to find more chipper showed us that Earth size planets in the habitable zone were common in our galaxy and every star virtually every star and planet around it planets which is amazing Dino the dead the inevitable habitable had several people have a travel have several several R Us idea Big Brother like a distance and all that stuff did a fantastic job of spotting these planets in the used to the idea that would a planet front of star it was a very small but beautiful dimming of the amount of like a star that's how we actually find planets was used to find all these plans that are out there. broken because there's wheels wheels that rotated in three dimensions of position it and at the time I think two wheels have failed and they were still trying to get them to come back online but unfortunately it doesn't look like it's going to happen. So as of the time of my research Kepler is still not usable and um I'm I'm not quite sure if you're still trying to get it working or not think

S: they are they're still reviewing wheel recovery options okay that's where they are

J: NASA did say that they have two years of dating yet to look at so you think you can get a fantastic job into fortunate that it did break but it lasted longer than I did I thought it was so

S: yes too bad I was hope you can last longer but a hundred percent does the word yet but it probably is

Who's That Noisy? (40:37)

• Answer to last week: J.Z. Knight

S: alright but thanks Jay shake so a evan going to move on who's that noisy

E: okay let's do that and I will play for you last week's use that as a reminder

so I went to the store in the following day after the conversation and on the floor in front of me and learn about anger Casey and I learned about a few people in my life and

J: no idea that could have been a lot of different people coming on Cynthia yeah but that is not the other than our dear friend Jay Z night

S: Jay Z yeah you see a AKA ramps

E: a millionaire's result for May rock on ramp to the 35 thousand year old warrior from Atlantis ghost she is said to channel orange and resources when she's not busy grunting outside the 22 for renters adoring fans

R: tough life

E: Millions for dad in person Asians are really like Harley bad role playing

R: it's a cringy here ah gotcha she's is like a fake accent yeah it is

E: its so put on its not its not even you know you couldn't you couldn't land roll on TV

S: and what's crazy is you talk to Evan and I in the local channel are very similar stick to a different persona and I've seen them on TV a dozen times and the believers almost all say the same thing you just can't fake that release that you think that is beyond the shipping ability to act that's just a reminder by glee it is motivated reasoning in the desire to believe it take it couldn't be any easier audience

R: Carlos jet history class Leslie really an actor for tenant Channel right now

E: several correct guesses of this week I kissed her your name you're going into the final drawing at the end of the year and who knows you may join us for a segment science fiction double check for this week yeah I got another voice for you and I really really like this one I'm going to be very interested to read your answers. So let's get ready to go

we found said she could feel the vibrations

B: It's called hearing

E: WTN at the skeptics guide dot org is the official email WTF how is that is that a yes WTN at the skeptics guide Oregon email or go ahead and post it on our forums SGU for me dot com again

Questions and Emails (43:42)

Question #1: Small Hadron Collider

This one is for Bob.... Was there ever a Small Hadron Collider? Alan Mills Bowen Island, BC Canada

S: Thank you evan want to have just a couple quick emails this week first one come from Alan Mills from Bowling Island BC Canada Allen right this one is for Bob was there ever a small hate Hadron Collider help way well as a

B: fun fun and actually Google small Hadron Collider and there really aren't any way any of them actually call back but up for going with me I had to have the quirks about to finish inclusive more fundamental particles you got a very on proton 3 quart mason switcher 114 King one and example of that we had run into the LED TV GM huh I'm the only see you just use proton proton had runs and I collide together free and I think that's pretty much it for examples examples of a swallow are or small dish how drunk lady gets super hot super small ladder I collapse I think its second biggest so we'll see 2/2 good examples persisted and citron and Steve a well-known for moves 3003 to know you got left on colliders times are those your fundamental particles are the deer electrons and positrons you want the truth or dare not composite sketch me when you got your neutrinos

E: cow particles

B: these colliders report because she creature really precise measurements um at of particles after their discovered in the Large Hadron Collider the place is well give me to be there tomorrow

S: and where do the kitten collectors into the whole scene yeah instead of milk in this type in small a drink later and into the Google site to see what we come up with all the headline is 10 year old makes functioning mini Hadron Collider in bedroom and

B: I came across a company called what are you doing in a 10 year olds making an email to be

S: 10 years old but the gym Peyton from a small town in Massachusetts Massachusetts has built a fully functioning hadron collider in his bedroom now got that the Clyde boy by the media is finding new phone payment required and I know it the daily squid the world's finest new source it's basically the British version of the onion

E: the onion Yeah Yeah Yeahs exclude a scrip in that part of the nine magical magical right to muscle person of Ford of medical parents yes

R: Jesus Christ York Juicy Couture totter vs without irony

S: I will take that question

Corrections (47:48)

Chondrocladia lyra

• http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/ivb.12001/abstract
• http://www.nature.com/news/new-carnivorous-harp-sponge-discovered-in-deep-sea-1.11789

S: alright one more, a couple of corrections actually last week remember in the science fiction on the country Clady a liar a deal the right I don't the rest of the guys are black

E: I remember that I never responded yet Dallas Texas TV spot

S: this one was the section because I said that to respond to eat fish and crustaceans when in fact the article that I was licking to the site that was drinking the top 10 species said that it captures planktonic pray items well what is mothers day to fish and now got a fish now but come on a brat I need crustacean uh yeah I suppose to

S: go back to the original paper they do mention that in fact a picture the time to say I think we're looking at here's a tiny crustacean caught in the eye and the excess of you keeping track of citations scores please go back and nobody do it better either carnivorous punches do we have Kristy shins but not this one is only mentions crustaceans

E: if it ate a crab surely at some point dot dot chris Christie aight a crab fish

Local pollen (49:20)

• http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pollen

S: so the other correction I was from our discussion of honey and pollen you guys recall

J: yep

S: I think there was some confusion me we never endorse this notion that eating honey is local honey honey is actually a treatment for allergies. Rebecca you were describing the rationale I kinda do for younger and I pointed out there is no actual evidence for it but a couple people brought up a very interesting point that we neglected, which kind of puts it into perspective. Allergies are caused by it animal games animal animal is calling first by the way this is a light small polymer ton of it is released because its just counting on random ill wind currents 22 chance when did in in another plant so that's what causes allergies. the other kind of pollen is Entomol STN to my phone is pollen is what is large and sticky and that's what insects animals will pick up and carry from one place to another and that does not cause allergies to something not dispersed way too heavy if you have to have you show off even if you were getting exposed to local anemophilous pollen through honey, you still would not have any affect on allergies because it's the other kind of pollen, the enema that causes allergies.

J: what about the birds what about it that's what I'm asking you

S: exactly a good point

Interview with Joshie Berger (51:17)

• http://forward.com/articles/174081/are-new-york-hospitals-hiding-herpes-from-metzitza/

well let's move on we are going to be joining us now is Joshy Joshy welcome back to the skeptics guide

JB: oh my god this is so exciting to be back on thank you guys for having me again hey have you hey hey hey hey where is the first time Rebecca's actually I'm here some super excited to do this and of course um I'm somewhat nervous but

R: you've been avoiding me apparently just wait until I'm not in town and then come on the show

JB: um him right the poker tournament a train going to let you know that what is this something that you appreciate you let me get out here that I really want to talk about and people tell me all the time you know why you so fanatic why so adamant can't you just get on with your life group s*** idk just move on. I can explain to people how it bothers me that Orthodox and especially his city q7 getting a free passenger side and so many people are suffering because it is and when I give certain scenarios of things like you know before the High Holidays Jews take chickens are we selling them over our heads and like the fact that this is not even thought about it animal abuse and your spouse is supposed to say sheeps chicken soul of a Brooklyn New York in the year 2013 with children grab them by their legs and your wings and fly around and head to transfer their sons to them you know you would assume that decent people that are animal lovers would be up in arms about it. when I tell people about like some of the practices for instance that affect women that half of a married woman's life she can not only not be touched by your husband and I don't mean sexually but you can't like the husband can't even pass object to her like if they have an infant child abduction sure about this like the husband will put the child down on the table to Florida gotcha b**** touches dirty wife gets menstrating in an hour. And I would assume people that are into women's rights and 7 up in arms about it but I keep hearing to apologies for this Nike peering people saying things like you know well they're adults obviously it is if they don't like it they wouldn't be there till the woman that getting beaten by her Taliban husband is here because this is what she really enjoys doing but this is a topic that I'm going to raise now which I think that every decent Shane Yurman beans even if your religious should have a huge problem with a teacher but at all or the acronym NBD p for it now I'm not going to get involved the whole circumcision conversation and I mean I think its its horrific and I think it's a testament to how much clout I'm jus haven't United States the dishes not even something that's up for discussion the fact that you're mutilating get you your child's genitalia without there being an enormous sheet of evidence that there is a some benefits medical benefit to it to get into that there's a practice tests done by or should I can specially just sitting choose which is despicable and is going back to 2006 years when to call me to mission to Tom and which was written like 18 years ago discuss the proper medical way to administer a circumcision and it was a four-part process when is the cutting wanted to removing of some skin or something and then the process after that involve G circumcise rithmo held a rabbi that's doing it actually takes his lips any places it on the child's penis any sucks out the blood and then they administered to put some cumen or some spices on it they were supposed to be at the septic system have some medicinal properties now its first animal that back in the day you know we had a limited understanding of Medicine & Perhaps I don't know perhaps TV shows better if sucking up like maybe the way you do it with snake bite your something she is the most appropriate way to prevent flooding glad I have no need for an old man to wrap your lips around in infants penis all in the name of religion and getting away with it in Brooklyn New York I think its disgusting and the fact is not something that everyone in our me about by twisting in the media is II can't I cannot understand this. I mean I think I mean look at the juice fresh with you some rag that dead literally has every day on it duh every week that they put out an article has something like in our faxes kill Jews baby this is a real drag they had a debate sponsored a GD 65 for mayor of New York and a question was asked them last year Mayor Bloomberg imposed a consent form now again he didn't say the disc up should be stopped in to see this is a barbaric Neanderthal primitive practice tests take a bus stop wall he did was say that parents don't want to Rabbi to suck your child's penis after circumcision need to fill out a form a consent form saying that we acknowledge in the stand that this is a dangerous practice. why was just implemented because of New York City has an admitted that numerous children have died from herpes and other things because their immune system is not developed well enough by 8 days old without a circumcision and hospitals have been covering up for some sort what is documented cases of children dying and getting brain damage because of this up sucking process a clearly has no additional um actually to value is Danny and all they were asked was are you okay with Bloomberg's consent form, which incidentally all the people said they will not conform to the rabbi said this is disgusting this is a way of implying that the doctors know better than a rabbis nowing this is sort of trying to tell her parents that you rather I not know best and they were falling all over each other just not to come out and say this is horrific this should not be taking place they're all apologizing for it they're all saying well do some fringe is on religious values we need to reevaluate this matter stuff like this pisses me off when people tell me Joshy why use a lot rage why do you have to be so loud and boisterous why can't you just move on this is the reason you're innocent kids that have no one to speaking out for them because their parents don't give two s**** about it I'm sorry for adding Steve here what I mean Steve your doctor what is your take on something?

S: literature on it and it was a much and there is a review article that uh does mention that there are a number of documented cases of herpes HSV a transmitted through this procedure although I gotta be at the apologist defender say that the other is that it has been proven that the day haven't directly connected to the a day for the mole lol MOTM Aaliyah 2/2 as the source of the infection but come on, you have an eight Deal is a deal in to come down with herpes it was a bunch of infant all gold circumcised by the same guy in one case series so eat yeah they did see you this is the clinical suspicion that that was the vector of herpes transmission is very high and you could be clearly documented but a yes 80 degrees in that time that nothing is being done about it is is a denial in the name of religious freedom. I did find a lot of internal debate within the community maybe it's Matt um with your kitty Toshiba among different sex if you will ever have two days off saying that hey you want to do this and just do it through is sterile glass to you know and

JB: yes yes to all honesty I have to concede that it's only the strict acidic sector Judaism still continue to do it at glass vial avail whatever is used by Modern Orthodox Jews and kudos to them for saying okay dude we gotta stop enough is enough

S: right exactly. is a date thing I found very of ironic electrical they justify the practice by saying that well when it was developed, whatever couple thousand years ago, it is there is some evidence that it may have been beneficial and get it it may have a protective say so if that's the reason for it if that's the reason for the practice then why not replace it with a better modern medical doctor

JB: great point Steve because he was your atomach scholar umm some stuff like 200 years ago that in Germany um just became aware to the public and he said look it all made when analyzing discussing this clearly mention s*** and references it together with the Q in application which was an antiseptic so obviously this is not part of the ritualistic portion of the circumcision but more as a as a portion of the medicinal parking now that medicine is for the better developed why don't we put a good cause of the rights on so forth and he has s***** interpreters an apology sick today with a response to that is saying that Germany was at a point where they're really into Semitic back in and they were going to disallow circumcision entirely 50s rabbi only gave this caveat to the should back off the really he didn't mean it for something that should be incorporated into future circumcision. this is how far and how to use PLR just not to concede that there's something behind it they just cant conceded to wrap eyes were anything but infallible or their entire structure falls apart.

R: frustrating because I mean besides the sect the most Orthodox people you know I at I feel like off of most major religions to choose people uh are most well-known sure being able to accept a new science in to attach their traditions accordingly but it seems like these the Orthodox sex are stuck in this dogmatic past said is having a very real dangerous repercussions on people today

JB: completely and they're riding the coattails of sexually jus like Rebecca just mentioned that's what if you reach me everytime someone says something improper or or against Jews Jessy Dixon Orthodox Jews hide behind Albert Einstein's in all the great um jus got out of one Nobel Prizes on so much I'm pretending that they are of the same ilk when they're not. they are our version of the Taliban I think it's incumbent upon secular and more liberal Jews to point that out to distance themselves from them from their practices

S: will just make sure you know speaking out about that I was so you you you have a very deep personal knowledge bowl this we appreciate your perspective on what you're going to take over science fiction today um show this week before we do that though let's talk about the amazing meeting because you are hosting the 2nd annual SGU skeptic poker tournament at at 10 this year

JB: I am so excited for this I mean I've been attending a few at my 4th shift and I'm so excited for this and I'm so excited that poker worked out so well last year and it's going to be even better this year shoes are you guys not freaking excited for 1000 yeah I can't wait is over Kings excited ok

J: Fisher Josh and I am no we ask TJ to expand a 200-seat so we could secure undersea to the casino which means we have the whole floor the whole poker floor um and Josh is going to be hosting again and he's going to be walking around the microphone is going to be I'm seeing and keep everyone up to date on what's happening at all the other tables as you're playing poker tournament is able to 10 see the people at each table at each table is going to have somebody that someone from the ice do you want the speakers from Tamil full stay at that table as everyone else rotates see you get a chance to meet some of the speakers and its a text them and ask questions a joke around and

JB: I cannot even tell you how much fun this is because it to call a nation of time cause it's Saturday night and everyone is just you know we been to conferences know that which is a lot of fun but we finally have several hours and once again literally went to for in the morning if I'm correct that you and everyone around partially because um every one of the skeptics really um played well. I have to really get to JJ came in third place but Evan Bob Steve George Hrab Jamie and everyone played really well so literally I don't think the free stuff noted Skepta got knocked out to like in the wee hours of the morning and she goes to Steven different you guys stuck around you spoke to everyone and we had a great policy where is once you enter the tournament you don't get kicked out of the tournament even if you're not playing anymore we allowed people at a reasonable distance stick around was still open bar and was just such a fun atmosphere. I'm really excited to be doing this again this year

S: did you tell you you have to register separately up for the poker tournament and to go there are still seats open but um but they are probably going to be gone before the conference comes around. mention is the SGU dinner we are having an SGU dinner again this side this year we have this 3 hours reserved where the roads will be there to meet our visitors to stick to just spend time with people listen to the podcast usually Zumba dance umm other well-known skeptics join us at the dinner is well. we have some kind of entertainment and we will be holding auction like we do every year and we are two of a coveted guess stroke spot she's always a popular item value to have to register separately for the SGU dinner as you can if you already registered you can still register for the dinner or do it while you register for Tam it is Friday night from 6 to 9 that's not yet on the schedule on the site really it's one of my favorite year Tennessee a is the dinner

JB: yet to be a special one last thing before we want to uh the last segment is that we had clinics last year to which I'm proud to say that duh the person that came in second place and he got an all expense paid trip to Nexus never play poker tourney attended the clinic and I will be hosting twice as many clinics ti sere dummies anytime you're free I'll un Shafter new the evening still be talking to an end in addition I have a gotten Lansky's Series poker which is a brilliant book which is pretty short on poker um to discuss it if you re behind poker a really really good skeptical point of view I get to PDF of a bit of a linkage to to the show show anyone that's register going to take a look can access it before the show up for an

J: awesome

S: All right. thanks Joshy so now you're going to do a slightly different version of science or fiction.

Science or Fiction (1:07:10)

Item #1: To not allow people to get caught up in modernity and shallowness and to always remind Jews that we are still in mourning, religious Jews, when building a new house, leave a portion of one of the walls unfinished, generally opposite the entrance, exposing the exterior rustic brick wall to remind us every time we walk in the door of the temple that was destroyed and how we are in constant mourning over it. Item #2: Even during the most happy of occasions, like weddings, religious Jews feel the need to temper the mood and, once again, remind us that things aren’t all that good and we should take it down a notch. This is accomplished by the groom, after exchanging vows, smashing a glass under his feet to halt the jubilation and to symbolize loss and misery. Item #3: Every year religious Jews set aside 3 days known as the 3 days of repentance. These days are to be carried out in misery and do not allow for any joy whatsoever. The list of requirements for these days include (but are not limited to): not eating meats, not drinking alcohol, not listening to any music, not wearing freshly laundered clothes, not showering or bathing and not engaging in any other activities which provide joy or comfort.

JB: already show we did I dream in which was quite popular last time I was surprised at how many people that were not you were able to relate to and I got Scientology people X Mormons and everything Tommy oh my god I can relate to this is so many different levels that really got me excited but I don't want to do the same thing you get you something a little bit different today to be called your own oh. now we all know that all of Jews you mercy endures around misery you know the old joke why Jewish husband die before their wives because they want to and L Jackie Mason sticking out gentle anything in a restaurant happy with it did you will complain no matter what you give them to you can peas and carrots why do so many peas and carrots was your draft your b*** so I can do you murder is really a psychological issue that involved which is very very real. Jews, especially religious and Orthodox Jews have a need for mystery series of a reluctance on their part on the park to Rabbi stuff to allow their sheep and your ilk to get it to the comfort zone the cantaloupe people think that things are really good order scared to go to lose people to assimilation. and ash arched do is constant reminders in an Orthodox Jew's life of how bad things really are even though you really think its good and its some of it you can see in Israel where the anti-Zionist people are they use some people wonder why you sometime see pictures of like a city jus with the President of Iran and stuff against Israel. they cancel out used to be comfortable and believe that they have their own state things are going to be good you got an army no it's terrible it's going to be terrible it's always going to be terrible let's not get too excited. So I'm going to give you guys a list of three things did Orthodox Jews do implement in their lives to remind them all the time that its not that good its miserable and you guys have to pick which one is not real are you ready?

E: yes

JB: I am going to make event go last cause he has the genetic advantage here we go with a rhino show the first one is to not allow people to get caught up on maternity shower mission to always remind you that we're still morning religious Jews with a blue the new home they leave a portion of one of the walls on finish just exposing the brick and making it really ugly they usually do it right across the main entrance so when you walk in every time you reminded of the temple that was destroyed and how they want to kill us and even know you got a lot of money to get a beautiful house no its really miserable that's number one.

What is GoDaddy laughing at our feet 11 Evan how you tolerate this I don't know. anyways never too even the most happiest of occasions like a wedding everybody knows that the ceremony that happens people after the exchange vows the rabbi stupid things the husband takes a glass Annie smashes it on the nieces foot in every screen is congratulations and the party commences. but the reason for this is because they don't want to be so happy. everyone is happy there's about to be a wedding let's smash something and let's make it miserable people say oh my god he just ruined a good piece of China something's broken to just take it down a notch. that's number two. the third one is: every year religious Jews after 3 days a year didn't notice the three days of repentance three days of close to be the official miserable three days in a row concurrent back to back to back dirty three days you're not allowed to eat any meat or poultry you can't drink alcohol a great jus cant listen to music you cannot we are any new clothes or you can even order clothes you have to wear old clothes you wore before you can't take a shower you cannot take a bath you cannot be happy can tell jokes he can do anything. 3 days during the year that you must be miserable and people really it here to this is not a city think this is a religious thing. lets start off with Rebecca

R: oh man okay will of the circuit and any good isn't interesting and difficult I've never heard of the idea that I should leave the portion of 11 unfinished I love it I love it I think it's great as customs going like the idea of it have to be like the temple that what temple?

JB: you know about are temples enough to know you're weird to temples they were destroyed by your people under

J: the hippie hair

R: cat ladies yard of these walls I believe my people did something horrible to your temple us National Glass turn the wedding that is definitely a tradition but is it a tradition that is done because it's the whole jubilation symbolize loss misery eyes I did not know that off but it does make sense 3 days off for Kaden's I also did not aware of her say but I think every religion does have a period of time in which people are expected to flooding self subway or to give up something in love like to Catholics have Lent and I am NOT like I have a vague idea that something like happens around I think Yom Kippur something to maybe it's that I don't have that kinda makes sense to me too. so I'm going to have to go with the building one just because it seems that's the 1i police scanner app Emily already with so I'll say

That that is what are my options are you fail your own oh okay

R: so I'm going to try and work here I'm going to say that the unfinished brick wall is a no no

JB: excellent J alright your genius

J: I'm the first one about the unfinished part of your interior so um I bet

JB: you've been to my interior I have nothing to do with her yes

J: so I would assume um that I've been in many Jewish peoples houses throughout my life because I don't know ask people with their religious background is why I've never seen it personally but there's something about this that does seem to make a lot of sense. the one about the stepping on the glass um yes another shooting I kind of things I've seen a million times and read about it you know everything I never really heard why it's done. hold on that one for a second. they serve one about every year DM the religious Jews set aside use 3 days 3 days of misery um I'm pretty sure that that one is true. I've heard definitely heard about it. to say that the one with the glasses diction is the only busy I know if he Ono

J: I'm going to say that because every time I've ever seen a pic in a movie date the guy that stepping on the glasses like laughing and smiling and then ate at the end after they step on everyone is like you're at

JB: Stevie let's get some intelligence going on in that you and I aren't happening but

S: I like the idea of the unfinished part of the wall did that just to make me just a little bit I've never seen it but I suspect maybe I have n't noticed it or I assumed that it was just ate architectural fashion statement because that's actually a little bit of an unfinished work is like to stress test fashionable now oh yeah

S: I probably just without actually like that look like that that's always a good that makes sense to me the bottle cost a thing on the class you'll be saving those that happens yeah I don't buy that as the explanation Whites done I don't remember what the real symbolism is but I just had to bake memory that it's something else so I think that one is the owner of. the three days of misery yeah every religion has sacrifices to me I was thinking the data cap with this is Lent this is like religion so that one seems very very plausible to make. so I'm going to go with Jay and say that the stepping on the glass is the oh no.

JB: I'm ready to step up to the plate

B: to you finish one the house that makes a lot of sense the second one just when you have course breaking the glass I really like I knew what it meant at some point

S: I used to know that

B: I used to know so much about that one India and the last one here on the three days in like a long three days to say that this this one here with the three days depends on state that that is a No

JB: alright now we got our tokens you haven't cried this one

E: I'm supposed to write have some certain advantages here but you have a very non Orthodox upbringing uh you know I find myself a 30 inch interested to learn some things about to what I'm really confused

E: Exactly the walls on furnished nope never heard of this Josh I haven't a note I can sand noticed anything out of the ordinary stranger I wanna go to the glass um and the crushing of the glass under foot plus breakout make everyone becomes like your kind of very happy and stuff when that moment Kors but I do think its just the opposite I think that that is supposed to be reminded of how to keep things in check rates joyful don't be to join have fun don't have too much fun last 1 3 days of repentance I like everyone else only 3? you're right I thought they lived alone there more much more than that for me there's always a 10 day span between rush on annual or import is the Day of Atonement but I having three days of repentance I don't know if your horse is one of those three inner two other ones maybe this is the one that is the only know because I think where perhaps being with you leave the trap 6 to 10 days of observation between a shot for next 3 days. so I think I'm going to side with Bob I'm going to go with him and say that the three days weekends that one is the owner know.

JB: let's start with the first one

R: I should change my answer

JB: would you like to go to the car take it from the top yes this one is all you ve ensure our back of head so there's a small caviar pretty much not adhere to buy it all or should I just used to buy his CD jus the type of which I grew up with when you build a new house she can't be to get to you can be too excited in you would walk into peoples beautiful three million dollar houses in Brooklyn and then as you walk in you'll see a part of the wall that has brick exposed now not like hipster breaking up with a fireplace but you'll see like a portion of the wall clearly intended to demonstrate that okay look over here dis is an ugly part of the house I mean it's so cliche at this point already it's not even ugly its just like oh my god did you see how ugly is so awesome to mansion would like ugly in the middle so some people actually put like a little frame around the ugly like frame the ugly part like that but yes the Richer traditional school jams which translates to what I say or band which means a reminder for easy destruction destruction of the temple like temple destroyed you some freakin terrible already looked into getting a good time. so I'm sorry Rebecca but that one is oy vey and

Is actually true haha take me seriously show on which you guys show all know about like in fact every time we're at a party or somewhere dead I'm glad happens to break a waiter I'll break something by mistake every want you to feel good today just go to make a joke out of it. So the tradition of smashing the glass to commit to be miserable is hey man it is actually something that Talmud discusses a believer a pop of one is there a great rabbis a rough one of them was having a wedding and was too boisterous any set up something on the way to Jewish people this can't be this exciting 8 o'clock in person wear something smashed it on the ground like quite a Down and I became a tradition since 10 the tall man as discussed it numerous times since then about the fact that something needs to be smashed to remind us all the time to temper our good mood in a good times. in fact ex-chief rabbi a is real um if I do your shift a cheese fried rabbit is really actually wrote the tree saying that she is discussed the fact that in modern times like you guys were pointing out the smashing of the glass is only responded to with my dogs and screaming and yelling it only further enhances the joyous occasion and we're all forgetting what the real meaning to it is going to be miserable was supposed to be depressed this is not what happened and he ordered people to stop stepping on glasses and stop doing that because it only leads to more happiness. oh yeah that was instituted initially just to make a depression not allowed to be that happy

S: to assist in that

JB: I'm sorry I'll hurry the door in

JB: anyways which leaves us to the third one which Bob got right but Evan really nailed, which was there are not three days of misery but there are some thing called in 9 days of misery. every summer we were on campus kids which is the most fun part of the summer you know you're out there yet swimming pools finally Audi CV having a good time there are nine days great day is no joke no music no swimming no showers you can only take a shower if its cold water quickly tripping on you see you don't enjoy to watch whatever. don't brush your teeth don't eat meat you can eat poultry don't listen to music no telling jokes if u smile or anything 79 days of misery to the way I felt a little bit guilty because you guys are awesome yeah we will see you guys I'm miserable and I'm like yeah we're even more miserable but I'm glad everything picked up on it and he said 3 no obviously more than that I think they strict machine that way so don't feel that bad oh no 3 because it actually 9.

S: alright Joshie really appreciate it a lot of fun

Skeptical Quote of the Week (1:23:55)

S: Jay going to put this is your mother is your

J: name is shaundra Chandrasekaran Avenue DC is a call from Andrew in Vegas yeah

J: and this is her talking about Carl Sagan

It takes a fearless, unflinching love and deep humility to accept the universe as it is. The most effective way he knew to accomplish that, the most powerful tool at his disposal, was the scientific method, which over time winnows out deception. It can't give you absolute truth because science is a permanent revolution, always subject to revision, but it can give you successive approximations of reality.

E: Ann it's one of the executive series thank you everyone for joining me to thank you Steve shud be doing tonight josh Josh Josh a

S: And until next week, this is your skeptics guide to the universe

S: The Skeptics' Guide to the Universe is produced by SGU Productions, dedicated to promoting science and critical thinking. For more information on this and other episodes, please visit our website at theskepticsguide.org, where you will find the show notes as well as links to our blogs, videos, online forum, and other content. You can send us feedback or questions to info@theskepticsguide.org. Also, please consider supporting the SGU by visiting the store page on our website, where you will find merchandise, premium content, and subscription information. Our listeners are what make SGU possible.

References