SGU Episode 127

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SGU Episode 127
26th December 2007
SGU2007.jpg
(brief caption for the episode icon)

SGU 126                      SGU 128

Skeptical Rogues
S: Steven Novella

B: Bob Novella

R: Rebecca Watson

J: Jay Novella

E: Evan Bernstein

Guest

M: Mike Lacelle

Links
Download Podcast
SGU Podcast archive
Forum Discussion


Introduction

You're listening to the Skeptics' Guide to the Universe, your escape to reality.

S: Hello and welcome again to the Skeptics' Guide to the Universe. This is your host, Steven Novella, President of the New England Skeptical Society and this is our special year in review for 2007. Joining me this evening are Bob Novella...

B: Hey everybody.

S: Rebecca Watson...

R: Happy holidays everyone.

S: Jay Novella...

J: Hey guys.

S: Evan Bernstein...

E: Another year come and gone.

S: and our number one fan from SGUfans.net Mike Lacelle.

M: Hey everyone.

E: Oh, hey Mike.

J: Hey Mike.

S: Thanks for joining us, again, Mike. And thanks for all your on our fan site and on our blog over the year. Over the past year.

M: No problem.

In Memoriam (0:56)

S: So we did this same thing last year. We spent our last episode of the calendar reviewing the past year. Just reminiscing about the good and the bad the funniest and best things that happened on our podcast over the past year. And we also asked for some feedback from our listeners, which we did again this year. So we're going to do some follow up on some of the stories that we covered during the year. We're going to give you some of the stats about how we're doing and then we're going to at the very end we'll look forward to what to expect and what our plans are for the upcoming year. So this past year, 2007, was a big year for the skeptics guide. A lot of good things happened and unfortunately some very bad things happened as well. Of course, we can't think about 2007 without thinking about that this was the year that we lost our very dear friend and fellow rogue, Perry DeAngelis, who passed away about half way through the year. We did our memorial episode[link needed] where we just spent an episode talking about Perry and what he meant to us on the show. So we're not going to go over that again but it's definitely, that was a very sad occurrence for all of us. But the good news, the bright side is that the Skeptics' Guide pressed on, moved forward as we know without a doubt that's exactly what Perry would have wanted for his project for not only the skeptical society but the podcast that he helped found to press on and survive and we did. We actually did it without even missing a single week. Something that I'm proud of and I'm sure Perry would have been proud of as well.

E: Definitely, Steve.

R: Yeah.

S: I hate to actually start on a down note but we did lose a few other prominent skeptics in 2007 and in a way this episode is a little mini memorial to all of those in our small community who did pass away this year. In addition to Perry, Barry Beyerstein passed away. Shortly after our interview with him[link needed] actually. We interviewed him earlier in the year.

E: We might have been the last interview he–that was–that he had.

S: Yeah. I think so. And Jerry Andrus also passed away this year.

E: Yeah. Around the same time as Perry.

J: People die in threes, ya know.

E: Ooo. Numerology.

R: That's scientifically proven.

S: So we're safe until next year, right?

J: Yeah.

E: It's a whole year away.

J: Now, what can we say about Perry? We've already said it. Everybody knows how we feel. It's one of those wounds that heals very very slowly and he was instrumental in the show and he was one of our best friends. We're doing what Perry would want and that's as good as it's ever gonna get.

S: Yeah. Still think about him every day.

J: Absolutely.

E: Oh yeah. Without a doubt. Without a doubt.

S: He was a tremendous presence both psychologically and intellectually.

E: And physically.

S: Whenever–yeah, and physically. Whenever any interesting story comes up you just have to think, "What would Perry say about this? What would he think about this?"

R: Yeah. I mean, he's still a tremendous presence.

E: And he was so funny.

J: If you want to talk about how funny Perry was we can play a couple Perry quotes. This is probably one of his funnier ones.

Uh, yeah, monkey's clearly perfume themselves. It's one of their higher order functions that they do. Unlike birds, by the way, who always smell like bird shit.

(laughter)

R: Ah, yeah. Monkey versus birds. I always thought that it would get old, but it never did.

S: It's true.

B: It's a little uncomfortable listening to him, though. Cause I really haven't listened to him, really, in months. It's just bizarre hearing his voice.

Evolution accelerating? Absolutely. In fact two weeks ago I was a goldfish.

J: That's a great quote.

S: He had great one liners.

E: Excellent one liners. You know, Bob, that is interesting I have gone back and listened to some of the older episodes with Perry and it's interesting. In a sense what the podcast has captured of Perry is really, obviously his essence but in a way now he's immortalized and it's a great thing that we have this episodes in order to help keep the memory of Perry, certainly, alive. It's more than a memory. It's really there. You can go back and listen. It's something really special and I like, with a smile I go back and listen to those old episodes.

S: Yeah.

B: Yeah.

I believe that China will control the weather. Doesn't cooperate they'll have it shot.

(laughter)

J: Perry was so funny.

R: That's one of my favorites.

J: Oh wait now here's–this is Perry right here.

How can two mathematicians come to a different conclusion? Well, one of them's a dick.

(laughter)

J: We were laughing back then over his quote.

S: He just slices through it.

J: Yeah.

Guests of 2007 (6:04)

S: Well, despite our losses we did have a great year otherwise. We had an incredible lineup of interviewees. I'm just going to read through them really quick starting with our first one in January. Here they are:

J: Who was that, Steve? Who was that interview?

E: President Jimmy Carter.

J: Interesting.

S:

And last week we just had Richard Wiseman on, again.

J: So who was everybody's favorite interview of the year?

E: Well, the Jimmy Carter interview was pretty special.

B: Yeah.

S: That was certainly our most prestigious interview of the year, by far.

R: I have to say that my favorite was Chris Hitchens going on about dirty limericks and Diane Sawyer.

B: And chain smoking while he's doing it.

R: Chain smoking, drinking. Hitchens at his finest.

J: He's amazing.

S: That interview was incredible with Hitchens. I mean that was a hoot.

M: I liked me, here and now.

(laughter)

M: I also liked Mark Crislip. I like Mark Crislip.

S: Yeah.

J: I was going to say Mark. Mark from QuackCast. He's a really funny guy and–I was thinking just recently again how his podcast is probably one of my favorites. Very informative but he's just funny in almost everything that he says.

S: Yeah.

J: And he's a good guy.

S: He's got a very dry sense of humor which I always appreciate. Our fans on the message boards the most commonly cited favourite interviewee was actually Bill Nye the Science Guy. A lot of people liked having him on.

J: He was great. He's one of those people that we could just interview for 4 hours and never run out of a second of material.

E: Yeah. He was upbeat and very willing and it was great that we were able to finally track him down. We worked on a while getting him to come on but that was really a nice interview.

J: He's in my top 3 skeptics. I think out of all the skeptics out there he's definitely one of the biggest and greatest out there, now.

S: Yeah. Bill Nye is a great guy. He certainly is getting it done. Get er done, wasn't that one of his things?

J: Get er done.

R: No. I'm pretty sure that's a second rate comedian.

J: My favorite quote from any guest that we had on the whole year was Bill Nye saying, "I'm going to change the world."

S: Yeah. You've picked that a couple of times.

J: I love that.

E: Gee. I wonder why.

J: I love that. It's so frickin right on.

Bits of 2007 (9:12)

S: We had a lot of good bits this year. I think that in 2006 the biggest topic that we liked to talk about and come back to was the bird monkey bit which we did come back to a little bit in 2007 but we've developed, we've broken some new ground. We talked about the whole, the fanny pack versus the utility belt discussion.

J: We have audio on that.

E: The skeptical utility belt.

S: Let's hear it Jay.

E: Keep your phone on your belt near your groin. You'll be all set.

S: Yeah.

R: Wait. Can I just say as a girl, don't, guys, don't do that. It looks so dorky.

S: What? The cell phone on the hip?

R: The cell phone on the–yeah. The phaser.

J: The Star Trek Next Gen phaser.

R: Just don't do it.

S: Where else are you going to wear your cell phone if not on your hip?

J: Yeah?

S: Let me ask a question.

R: You can carry it in your pocket, in your man purse...

S: Why won't women wear cell phones on their hip? I don't get it?

E: Yeah.

R: Because it looks ridiculous.

S: But you know what? My wife throws her cell phone in the purse and then she can't hear it ring.

R: Yeah, but she doesn't look ridiculous does she?

S: Yeah but she doesn't answer he cell phone.

R: No, she looks cute cause she has a purse.

E: She's being impractical.

R: Yeah. And she's not getting getting brain cancer cause she's not answering her phone all the time cause she can't find it. There, problem solved.

E: Or groin cancer.

S: I'm not going to advocate that people wear like fanny packs or anything, but I think is one case...

R: Oh, god.

S: ...where function trumps fashion.

R: No no no. It is practically, you are right next to fanny pack.

S: No, no no. This is totally different.

R: I know that you've been walking down the street thinking, "This phone clipped to my belt is cool and all but wouldn't it be better if I could stick a little bit of money next to to my phone. Or maybe put my keys there. Hey, you know, I should get a larger sack to carry the phone in."

S: No you're missing... Rebecca you're missing the whole thing here. First of all, wearing an electronic device on your hip is way cool. Okay? That's number one.

E: Oh, yeah.

R: Oh, you are so confused.

S: Number two...

E: Babe magnet.

S: is you're going in the wrong direction by going towards a fanny pack. You should be going in the utility belt direction.

E: Ooo... I agree.

S: Yes. Absolutely.

J: You're a genius.

R: Yeah. Yeah. Batman. That's a great idea. Have you considered a cowl while you're at it? A cowl?

S: A cowl?

R: A cowl pulled over your face. Yes. Maybe with little ears.

S: Those are only for evil–those are only for villains. Not heroes.

R: Uh, Batman has a cowl. Hello.

S: He's the dark knight, okay? He's right on the edge.

R: Just don't do it, okay? It's bad.

J: You could have like a little change thing on there.

S: Yeah.

J: If you can get a...

R: The only way an electrical device attached to your hip is going to get you laid is if it's a vibrator, okay?

S: We pretty much covered that.

R: You're basically completely delusional.

J: Yeah. That was good.

R: Yeah.

E: Has anyone's opinion changed since then? I'm curious. Any of you guys?

S: Oh, no. I'm still working on the whole utility belt thing. We got to bring that to fruition. The skeptical utility belt.

R: You're true believers in the utility belt. Cell phone on the hip.

S: You're a denier. Rebecca, you are a utility belt denialist.

M: Admit it, you're wearing a fanny pack, now.

B: I'm wearing fanny padding because I have no ass, but that's not quite a fanny pack.

R: He's wearing three fanny packs actually.

S: Some other funny moments that are our fans voted as their favorites for the year–definitely far and away the one that got the most votes was the Science or Fiction episode[link needed] where we were giggling like school girls.

J: Which one?

R: Was that the nanotubes?

S: Alright, let's take them in order Jason. She wants to take them in order.

J: Let's do that. Let's do it.

S: Alright. Number 1, study shows that carbon nanotubes can be used

(laughter)

B: Do it!

(laughter)

S: Give me a second.

(laughter)

E: God, Steve.

(laughter)

B: Steve you didn't edit this?

?: How come he's laughing so much, what does it mean?

S: Your response Bob is just funny.

B: Ok.

S: Study shows that carbon nanotubes can

(laughter)

?: Can't get by carbon nanotubes.

(laughter)

R: Can I just say there's no other podcast on the planet where carbon nanotubes can cause so much giggling. So much school girl giggling.

J: Oh, shit.

E: We love you, Bob.

(laughter)

J: Rebecca knows he's actually getting angry.

(laughter)

S: Alright. Can be used to heal bone fractures...

(laughter)

S: several days faster than natural healing and results in 60% increase of bone strength. You guys all think that one is science and that one is in fact, fiction.

(laughter)

S: The interesting thing is that is when I'm doing the post production I'm thinking to myself should I leave this whole episode in or–I actually almost cut it out because it's just a huge segment.

R: Well, normally you do. Cause there have been other times when we've all cracked up and...

J: There have been a whole bunch of funny things.

S: I don't know. It just struck me as so funny. I just was laughing so hard while I was doing the post production I decided to leave it in. And then it turns out to be the most popular segment of the whole year.

B: It got the most votes?

S: Yeah.

E: Yeah. It really was funny. I mean I can't listen to it now without cracking up every time.

J: Well done, Bob. You played the straight guy perfectly in that whole exchange.

S: Right.

R: Yeah. Actually the roles were completely reversed. Normally it's Steve.

J: Exactly.

B: I wasn't in that clip.

J: I remember after we did that episode and it went live Mike calls me up and he was like completely blown away by that bit. He just went on for like 10 minutes about how funny it was. I didn't even remember it being that funny when we did it. Like, yeah, we laughed or whatever. I went back and listened to it. It knocked me over it was so funny.

S: It was just the laughter was so contagious, was the thing.

J: It was. It was real–It was a very real moment. We do have other moments like that in which we do kind of lose ourselves in the moment. And it was also, I think, if you recall, it was I think–right–a week or two after, I think, we lost Perry.

S: Yeah. Yeah.

J: Shortly after that time.

S: We needed a lighthearted segment.

J: Yes. Yes. It was a release of sorts. That was just correct for the time–for the time and the moment.

B: What episode was that?

?: 113.

S: Some other bits, without playing them just to mention some of the other bits that got votes for favorite bits for the year. The time where we made up words[link needed] and...

B: Oh yeah. Cromulation or whatever. Cromulant.

S: Rebecca was getting frustrated with our making up of words. Constriculated, yeah. Evan was responsible for most of those shenanigans.

E: Well, I have a lot of practice. I make up a lot of things in day to day life. So...

S: Yeah.

E: just spew it out there whenever.

S: The discussion about having the TV in the bathroom.

B: Oh, that was classic.

E: Oh, yeah, and that turned into I think into toilet at the computer, somehow.

S: Yeah.

?: Yeah.

?: Yeah.

?: Right.

J: Alright. Here's one I have to play. I have to play this one.

?: Nice.

R: (laughter)

S: Alright, Bob?

J: Here we go.

B: Crap. These are...

J: Everybody. Hold on. Wait Wait. Alright. (inaudible) Everybody revel in it. Ready? Alright. Here we go.

S: Everyone ready? Everyone settled in comfortable? Okay, Bob. Go.

R: Settled.

R: Wait. I need to go get a coffee. K?

S: Bob will still be going.

J: Go around the corner, Rebecca.

S: Yeah, go to Starbucks.

R: It's a Starbucks. It's across the street. (laughter)

E: Poor Bob.

R: Bob, you go on.

B: Are you assholes done?

(laughter)

B: Alright.

B: That of course–that dovetails nicely into

S: Bob, go first.

B: Bastard.

(laughter)

B: Um. Let me digest these. Hang on a second.

(musical interlude)

(laughter)

J: Here's the good part.

B: I should have burped when I came back.

J: Bob, this is your theme music, Bob.

S: Do you know how long it took me to find a usable audible clip of that music? But once I had it in my mind,–that music playing while Bob was thinking about his answer I could not rest until I found that audio clip.

(laughter)

E: Brilliant.

J: Bob, if it's possible, if there's an entrance at TAM6 and you walk in and I'm playing that–I'm going to make it happen.

(laughter)

E: That's your walking around music, Bob.

S: Bob's theme music now.

B: That's my theme music, yeah.

S: Right.

B: What else we got, Steve?

S: Oh, boy.

?: Whatever.

S: There's another–another segment that was frequently mentioned by our fans–they like, which is also one of my favorites from this year was the whole discussion about my interaction with Michael Horn[link needed] who is the apologist–with–for Billy Meyer the Swiss UFO guy and just the depths of ridiculousness that this guy got to. Where the story just kept getting more and more and more ridiculous. That was a really funny bit.

R: With the two hot chicks who get photographed.

S: Yeah the photograph of the two dancers from the 70's. Those were his aliens.

R: Yeah.

J: That is beyond insanity and it's priceless material.

E: He took pictures of the television screen. Unbelievable.

S: And other times he showed as evidence pictures of–of like taken from magazines.

R: Yeah.

J: Wow. Talk about not being there.

E: Slick.

S: And then he threatened that if we did not interview him on our show then he would send out a press release saying how we acquiesced to all his claims and everything. It was ridiculous.

R: Oh no! Not a press release.

S: He did. I actually looked. I looked on his website. I searched on it in preparation for this today. I could not find any follow up or that he had any reaction to it. We did tell him, "No. Screw off. We're not interviewing you and we're not acquiescing to any of your claims cause you're an idiot," and no follow up from him so it was all bluster.

Stories Revisited (19:20)

S: Speaking of which I did try to find a follow up to some of the stories that we covered this year. The one that I really wanted to follow up was the free energy device claims of Stern that Irish company.

R: Yeah.

S: That–over the summer they were going to...

J: Yeah.

S: demonstrate their device and then the demonstration didn't go so well. The lighting or something was interfering with this free energy device that's created by magnets.

R: Yeah. Physics.

B: Well light is actually very heavy and that was what was screwing it up.

S: So I wanted to find out–it's been like 6 months they promised that they were going to do a follow up demonstration so what's happened with these guys. Well they haven't done anything in the last 6 months. No demonstrations. Nothing. There have been some interviews since then and they're not really talking about the demonstration or what's coming up. They said, very vaguely, maybe it will be–they think maybe this next demonstration will be in Dublin, Ireland but they're not giving any timeline or anything. So, they're really acting like the company is just looking for investors and I think at this point they've got to know they don't really have something legitimate.But they still exist. They're still sticking by their claims. But I wouldn't hold your breath for any demonstrations of their free energy device.

M: Maybe we just need to invest some more money into it.

S: Right.

M: Send them a check or something.

R: Billions of dollars.

J: Bob, how much should we invest?

B: In that? Billions of nano-pennies.

(laughter)

J: Wow. Those are small pennies. What else? Any other follow up, Steve?

B: I did a–I tried to do a follow up on–remember in mid-April–our mid-April episode we did a little talk on a company, D-Wave. It's a start up company in British Columbia. They supposedly demonstrated the first–the world's first commercial quantum computer.

S: Yeah, right.

B: In–I think it was February of this year. It was like a 16 qbit computer. And, I think the bottom line in our discussion was that they provided no evidence to back up any of it's claims. The details that they released were very, very sketchy about the inner workings of the Orion, which is what they called it. And that it was almost–it's pretty much indistinguishable from a slow analog computer. You really couldn't tell is this really a quantum computer or just an analog computer and they–you really couldn't tell. So, that was many months ago and I was able to find a few things about them. I found one really quote. This is from Scott Aaronson theoretical computer scientist at the Institute of Quantum Computer at the University of Waterloo in Canada. He said, "Over the last year rather than answering scientist's questions about what, if anything they've actually that's novel, they seem to have descended even further into the lowest kind of hucksterism." Which I thought was a really fun quote. They did apparently make an appearance at the super-computing conference in Reno in which they were going to demonstrate their 28–now 28 qbit computer. And I tried to find out what happened at this convention and I wasn't able to find anything. One guy actually wrote a review of the convention and he just gave the briefest mention about this quantum booth that somebody set up. He didn't go into any detail which kind of makes me think that really not much happened.

E: Wasn't much of anything. Yeah.

B: Right. So if anybody can get any more details about what happened at the super-computing conference in Reno last month I would appreciate it. But it does not look promising at all.

S: Yeah. That seems to be a pattern. That companies send out a press release. They make a little splash. They're making claims about some incredible breakthrough or device. They get a lot of media attention and then they just sort of fade away. But meanwhile, it seems like in a lot of cases, they're doing it either just for some free promotion. They're just using the press, the gullible press, to get them some free promotion or it's part of some bigger scam where they're trying to get investors or whatnot. I remember–remember the Raelians a couple years ago?

J: Oh sure.

S: Who announced that they claimed the first person–the first human being.

?: Right.

S: And the press just ate it up. And then it turns out it was all fake. They just lied. They made it up and their defense was, "Well, look at all the free publicity we got." That was–I mean they actually said that. Then we got the free energy guys making their announcements and Bob, the quantum computer. There was also that fraudulent company that–they're selling this–that device that finds people. With magic. You put some sample of them in there and then they can find them anywhere in the world. It's like this elaborate dousing device. It's the same thing. I guess the con artists have found this new method.

E: Fresh targets or something.

B: What's different though is that these are technologies a lot of people–like quantum computers, that, I think, and a lot of people think, eventually will arrive. They will be here and make very significant contributions to science. So it's not like this is just pure pseudoscience.

S: Well, yeah. Well, historically, Bob, that's a very common pattern, too.

B: Cutting edge.

S: People are pretending or claiming to have a breakthrough that's anticipated. For example, around the turn of the century everyone pretty much figured that manned flight–that building a heavier than air plane, if you will, was coming. They knew for like the 20 years prior to that that was something that people–multiple teams were working on and was right around the corner and a lot of people were making claims that they had developed it or they were looking for investors for it and there was lots of sightings of people thinking that they saw flying machines. So that was just anticipating that technological breakthrough. And it's the same thing now. We're seeing stem cell clinics opening up before the stem cell treatments have actually been developed. People claiming to have cold fusion. Who knows if that will ever pan out, but these kinds of developments that are anticipated and the quantum computer is the same thing. So, it's a very semi-plausible scam. Everyone knows it's right around the corner. Well, "Hey, look. We have it. We've cloned a human." Whatever. The other category, of course, is the–there's the perennial ones. The one's that have just been around for ever. Like free energy machines.

J: I did a follow up on Tom Cruise and Scientology. And...

S: Yeah.

J: Basically, unfortunately, Tom Cruise is still bat shit crazy and Scientology still sucks.

R: (laughter)

J: That's my follow up.

S: Really? That hasn't changed at all?

J: That has not changed at all.

R: Thank you for that in depth report.

M: I have a few.

S: Alright, let's hear it.

M: This is actually a quote from you, Steve, from one of the episodes that you did some updates on. And they all still stand. Candhoven is still in jail. Neil Adams still doesn't have a clue. And Ed Wern is still dead.

B: Yeah.

S: Those things are all still true.

J: Yep.

B: Still.

R: They are true.

J: Well done, Steve.

(laughter)

B: That third one's a surprise, but not the first two.

E: Yeah, right? No kidding.

S: So Mike. You're hear to help give us the fan's perspective on 2007 and the show so did anything else stand out for you as a fan for the Skeptics' Guide?

M: Well, you had the basically the opening of the blogs. You announced that, I believe you announced Neurologica in January. I think it was in January. And the Rogue's Gallery opened in September. It was mostly, I guess, off show stuff that made an impact on me.

S: Yeah. You've been helping us a lot behind the scenes.

M: Yeah.

S: Mike has actually been helpful helping us in the web programming of the blog. So we did–at the very beginning of the year I did begin the Neurologica blog and that has worked out extremely well. I have really enjoyed doing science blogging over the past year and I think that has been a very good compliment to the Skeptics' Guide. I think some things are just better expressed in writing. Other things are better as a conversation and they do compliment each other extremely well. I've also found it very helpful that–it's almost every week where I get e-mails from multiple people saying, "Hey, have you guys dealt with this story?" and I can just e-mail them back the link to my blog entry where I wrote about it at depth. So it almost serves as a Frequently Asked Question–as a FAQ. Midway through the year, a little bit after that, we started the Rogue's Gallery which is the official blog to the Skeptics' Guide to the Universe and Mike writes for that as well as John Blumenfeld so we've been able to pull in some more talent, as well as the rogues and that has been going extremely well, also. Again, a nice compliment to the show. In fact the blogging has worked out so well that the New England Skeptical Society is going to be producing a third blog which we plan to begin in January of 2008, so just in a couple of weeks. It's pretty much up and running. We should be getting the first posts going up in the beginning of January. This one is called Science Based Medicine and it is all about healthcare and medical issues. I'm only going to be one of the contributing authors. We're also going to have Wallace Sampson, Kimball Atwood, Harriet Hall, and David Gorski. All physicians who are talented writers who understand and promote–work to promote science as a basis for healthcare and medicine and they're also experienced analyzing and being critical of pseudoscience or bad science in medicine. So really looking forward to this blog. I think this could be a very respected, high profile, science blog because we're pulling in quite a bit of talent. I'm also actually going to be inviting others to help participate in this blog to really pull in the best science medical writers and to address, just day to day, all of the issues that come up in the media with–whether it's the latest acupuncture study or whatever. So we're really looking forward to that.

Conclusion ()

S: The Skeptics' Guide to the Universe is a production of the New England Skeptical Society. For more information on this and other episodes see our website at www.theness.com.

Today I Learned

References


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