SGU Episode 898 - Revision history

Xanderox: removed w/ links

2023-10-22T18:58:57Z

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Xanderox: co2 template

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	\|link1 = <ref>[https://www.ntu.edu.sg/news/detail/rapid-land-sinking-leaves-global-cities-vulnerable-to-rising-seas NTU Singapore: Rapid land sinking leaves global cities vulnerable to rising seas]</ref>		\|link1 = <ref>[https://www.ntu.edu.sg/news/detail/rapid-land-sinking-leaves-global-cities-vulnerable-to-rising-seas NTU Singapore: Rapid land sinking leaves global cities vulnerable to rising seas]</ref>

	\|item2 = A recent study estimates the total social cost of releasing carbon into the atmosphere at $185 per tonne, which is triple the current US government estimate. (For reference, the world emits >34 billion tonnes of ~~CO2~~ each year.)		\|item2 = A recent study estimates the total social cost of releasing carbon into the atmosphere at $185 per tonne, which is triple the current US government estimate. (For reference, the world emits >34 billion tonnes of {{co2}} each year.)
	\|link2 = <ref>[https://www.nature.com/articles/s41586-022-05224-9 Nature: Comprehensive Evidence Implies a Higher Social Cost of ~~CO2~~]</ref>		\|link2 = <ref>[https://www.nature.com/articles/s41586-022-05224-9 Nature: Comprehensive Evidence Implies a Higher Social Cost of {{co2}}]</ref>

	\|item3 = The latest climate models indicate that even with rapid decarbonization it is too late to prevent eventual warming >1.5 C.		\|item3 = The latest climate models indicate that even with rapid decarbonization it is too late to prevent eventual warming >1.5 C.
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	~~''Voice-over: It's time for Science or Fiction.''~~
	''Voice-over: It's time for Science or Fiction.''		''Voice-over: It's time for Science or Fiction.''

	'''S:''' Each week I come up with three science news items or facts, two real and one fictitious, and then I challenge my panel of skeptics to tell me which one is the fake. There's a theme this week. The theme is global warming. So three items that in some way have to do about global warming. Here we go. Item #1: A survey of 48 coastal cities finds that they are sinking at an average rate of 16.2 mm per year, with the fastest at 43 mm per year. (For reference, average global sea level rise is 3.7 mm per year.) Item #2: A recent study estimates the total social cost of releasing carbon into the atmosphere at $185 per ton, which is triple the current US government estimate. (For reference, the world emits >34 billion tonnes of ~~CO2~~ each year.) And item #3: The latest climate models indicate that even with rapid decarbonization it is too late to prevent eventual warming >1.5 C. 1.5 degrees Celsius above pre-industrial levels. All right, well, David, as our guest, you have the privilege of going first.		'''S:''' Each week I come up with three science news items or facts, two real and one fictitious, and then I challenge my panel of skeptics to tell me which one is the fake. There's a theme this week. The theme is global warming. So three items that in some way have to do about global warming. Here we go. Item #1: A survey of 48 coastal cities finds that they are sinking at an average rate of 16.2 mm per year, with the fastest at 43 mm per year. (For reference, average global sea level rise is 3.7 mm per year.) Item #2: A recent study estimates the total social cost of releasing carbon into the atmosphere at $185 per ton, which is triple the current US government estimate. (For reference, the world emits >34 billion tonnes of {{co2}} each year.) And item #3: The latest climate models indicate that even with rapid decarbonization it is too late to prevent eventual warming >1.5 C. 1.5 degrees Celsius above pre-industrial levels. All right, well, David, as our guest, you have the privilege of going first.

	=== David's Response ===		=== David's Response ===

Hearmepurr: 898 completed

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898 completed

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Hearmepurr: skeptical quote completed

2022-11-21T17:18:45Z

skeptical quote completed

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	<blockquote><p style="line-height:125%">''In the field of thinking, the whole history of science – from geocentrism to the Copernican revolution, from the false absolutes of Aristotle's physics to the relativity of Galileo's principle of inertia and to Einstein's theory of relativity – shows that it has taken centuries to liberate us from the systematic errors, from the illusions caused by the immediate point of view as opposed to "decentered" systematic thinking.''</p>– {{w\| Jean Piaget}} (1896-1980), Swiss psychologist </blockquote>		<blockquote><p style="line-height:125%">''In the field of thinking, the whole history of science – from geocentrism to the Copernican revolution, from the false absolutes of Aristotle's physics to the relativity of Galileo's principle of inertia and to Einstein's theory of relativity – shows that it has taken centuries to liberate us from the systematic errors, from the illusions caused by the immediate point of view as opposed to "decentered" systematic thinking.''</p>– {{w\| Jean Piaget}} (1896-1980), Swiss psychologist </blockquote>

	~~[01~~:~~41:08.440 --> 01:41:09.440]~~ All right.		'''S:''' All right Evan, give us a quote.

	~~[01~~:~~41:09.440 --> 01:41:15.360] Evan, give us a quote in~~ the field of thinking the whole history of science from geocentrism		'''E:''' "In the field of thinking, the whole history of science – from geocentrism to the Copernican revolution, from the false absolutes of Aristotle's physics to the relativity of Galileo's principle of inertia and to Einstein's theory of relativity – shows that it has taken centuries to liberate us from the systematic errors, from the illusions caused by the immediate point of view as opposed to "decentered" systematic thinking." Jean Piaget.

	[~~01:41:15.360 --> 01:41:20.680~~] ~~to the comparison revolution, from the false absolutes of Aristotle's physics to the~~		'''C:''' [inaudible] just say?

	~~[01~~:~~41:20.680 --> 01:41:27.480] relativity of Galileo~~'~~s principle of inertia and to Einstein~~'~~s theory of relativity shows~~		'''E:''' I know that was a little bit just say, well, you know who Jean Piaget is, right?

	~~[01~~:~~41:27~~.~~480 --> 01:41:33~~.~~180]~~ that ~~it has taken centuries to liberate us from the systematic errors~~, ~~from the illusions~~		'''C:''' Of course. I'm psychology. If I didn't that would be bad. You'd be like, well, Cara, what have you been doing in your degree?

	~~[01~~:~~41:33.180 --> 01:41:38.960]~~ caused by ~~the~~ immediate ~~point~~ of view, ~~as opposed~~ to the ~~decentered, since thematic~~		'''E:''' The takeaway is that it's taken centuries to liberate us from the systematic errors and the illusions caused by immediate points of view. So these basically, these things take time. It takes time for us to make all the the corrections that need to be made so that we do have a better understanding of the universe around us.

	~~[01~~:~~41:38~~.~~960 --> 01:41:39~~.~~960]~~ thinking.		'''S:''' Yeah, it's very meta, which I like in that he's stepping back and saying one of the trends, big picture, broad brushstroke trends in intellectual thinking over the course of human history is that we've progressively gone from looking at what's right in front of us, both literally and metaphorically, logically, just the immediate most apparent thing to thinking in much more abstract, systematic, institutional ways. And even the counterintuitive, less obvious things. That's been a general trend and it's a good thing. It's the only because the that narrow, immediate thinking is a intellectual prison. It sort of traps you in thinking very small, which is not a good way to understand the universe.

	~~[01~~:~~41:39~~.~~960 --> 01:41:40~~.~~960] Jean Piaget~~.		'''C:''' It's fascinating that this was his perspective, because I think at first blush, a lot of people just simply associate Piaget with models and theories of child development. Who was a child psychologist, but his interest in children and in children's ability to learn and in children's ability to make generational change was fundamental to how he wrote. He was really interested in epistemology, and how children are the carriers of the change of how we know what we know. So that really tracks with that quote in a kind of beautiful way.

	~~[01~~:~~41:40~~.~~960 --> 01:41:48~~.~~320] I know that was a little bit just say~~, ~~well~~, ~~you know who Jean Piaget is, right?~~		'''S:''' Yeah. Cool. All right. Well, David, thanks for joining us on the show.

	~~[01~~:~~41:48.320 --> 01:41:49.320] Of course~~.		'''B:''' Thanks, man.

	~~[01~~:~~41:49.320 --> 01:41:50.320] I~~'~~m psychology~~.		'''S:''' We really enjoyed having you.

	~~[01~~:~~41:50.320 --> 01:41:51.320] Yeah~~.		'''E:''' Hey, David.

	~~[01~~:~~41:51.320 --> 01:41:52.320] I didn~~'t.		'''J:''' Thanks, David.

	~~[01~~:~~41:52.320 --> 01:41:53.320] That would be bad~~.		'''DA:''' Thank you guys for having me.

	~~[01~~:~~41:53.320 --> 01:41:55.500] You~~'~~d be like, well, Kara, what have~~ you ~~been doing in~~ your ~~degree?~~		'''E:''' Thank you for all your support. We appreciate it.

	~~[01~~:~~41:55~~.~~500 --> 01:41:59.880] The takeaway is that it's taken centuries to liberate us from the systematic errors~~		'''S:''' Yeah, absolutely.

	~~[01~~:~~41:59.880 --> 01:42:02.940] and the illusions caused by immediate points of view~~.		'''C:''' Absolutely.

	~~[01~~:~~42:02.940 --> 01:42:07.760] So these basically, yeah, these things take time~~.		'''S:''' And thank you guys for joining me again this week.

	~~[01~~:~~42:07.760 --> 01:42:13~~.~~580] It takes time for us to make all the the corrections that need to be made so that we do have a~~		'''E:''' Thank you, Doctor.

	~~[01~~:~~42:13.580 --> 01:42:15.920] better understanding of the universe around us~~.		'''B:''' Sure, man.

	~~[01:42:15.920 --> 01:42:20.200] Yeah, it~~'~~s very meta, which I like in that he~~'~~s stepping back and saying, you know,~~		'''C:''' Of course.

	~~[01:42:20.200 --> 01:42:26.420] one of the trends, big picture, broad brushstroke trends in intellectual thinking over the course~~

	~~[01:42:26.420 --> 01:42:31.440] of human history is that we~~'~~ve progressively gone from looking at what's right in front~~

	~~[01:42:31.440 --> 01:42:36.880] of us, both literally and metaphorically, like logically, like just the immediate most~~

	~~[01:42:36.880 --> 01:42:44.280] apparent thing to thinking in much more abstract, systematic, institutional ways, you know,~~

	~~[01:42:44.280 --> 01:42~~:~~47.680] and even the counterintuitive, less obvious things.~~

	~~[01:42:47.680 --> 01:42:50.480] That~~'~~s been a general trend and it~~'~~s a good thing.~~

	~~[01:42:50.480 --> 01:42:56.960] It~~'~~s the only because the that narrow, immediate thinking is a intellectual prison, right?~~

	~~[01:42:56.960 --> 01:43:01.680] It sort of traps you in thinking very small, which is not a good way to understand the~~

	~~[01:43:01.680 --> 01:43:03.760] universe.~~

	~~[01:43:03.760 --> 01:43:10.400] It's fascinating that this was his perspective, because I think at first blush, a lot of people~~

	~~[01:43:10.400 --> 01:43:18.160] just simply associate Piaget with like, models and theories of child development.~~

	~~[01:43:18.160 --> 01:43:25.300] That's like, that's like a child psychologist, but his interest in children and in children's~~

	~~[01:43:25.300 --> 01:43:30.760] ability to learn and in children's ability to make generational change was like fundamental~~

	~~[01:43:30.760 --> 01:43:34.940] to how he wrote like he was really interested in epistemology, and how children are the~~

	~~[01:43:34.940 --> 01:43:38.960] carriers of the change of how we know what we know.~~

	~~[01:43:38.960 --> 01:43:44.000] So that really tracks with that quote in a kind of beautiful way.~~

	~~[01:43:44.000 --> 01:43:45.000] Yeah.~~

	~~[01:43:45.000 --> 01:43:46.000] Cool~~.

	== Signoff ==		== Signoff ==